Rae McDaniel is on the show and I’m really excited for you to listen to my conversation with them. We talked about how to be a better ally to the transgender and non-binary community. Plus, Rae has the most fascinating upbringing story which they shared during our time together. 

Rae McDaniel is a non-binary gender and sex therapist-turned-coach who works with transgender/non-binary/questioning folks feeling lost while transitioning their gender identity. Our conversation was interesting and informative. 

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Rae’s upbringing by parents who were Christian-missionary puppeteers (I had so many questions!). (4:17)
  • Their experience coming out as queer in an unsupportive environment. (7:34)
  • How the narrative that gender transition has to include suffering and anxiety is damaging to transgender and cisgender folks alike. (12:19)
  • Rae’s perspective about anti-transgender and anti-nonbinary laws being pushed in legislation today. (16:54)
  • What it means to be a good ally to the transgender and nonbinary community, plus trans affirming language and the gender spectrum. (25:00)
  • What to do (and not do) when someone comes out to you. (34:10)
  • Advice for parents who suspect their child might be trans or nonbinary or their child has come out to them, and their feeling a bit lost. (36:15)

Resources mentioned in this episode:
Rae McDaniel’s website
Rae on Instagram @practicalaudacity
Share your “Make Some Noise, ”story with us! Visit AndreaOwen.com/talk
Jeffrey Marsh on TikTok @thejeffreymarsh
Psychology Today

Rae McDaniel is a non-binary gender and sex therapist-turned-coach who works with transgender/non-binary/questioning folks feeling lost while transitioning their gender identity. They are the creator of GenderFck: The Club, a one-of-a-kind, research-based online group coaching community of transgender/non-binary/questioning folks who are on a mission to transition with less suffering and more ease. Rae is the founder of Practical Audacity, a gender and sex therapy practice in Chicago. They also provide training for medical and mental health professionals wishing to uplevel their knowledge in trans-affirming care. Rae holds a Master's of Education in community counseling.

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Rae McDaniel 00:00
So the person is simply evolving into more of who they authentically are. And that's something to celebrate. Even if there are parts of it that you have to do some emotional processing around or that are difficult, like a child or a loved one, changing their name or changing their body in some way. And to remember that discomfort isn't harm, that they are not harming you by changing something about themselves, even if it's uncomfortable, or it's hard to get used to for you.

Andrea Owen 00:37
You're listening to Make Some Noise, Episode Number 395 with guest Rae McDaniel.

Welcome to Make Some Noise Podcast, your guide for strategies, tools and insight to empower yourself. I'm your host, Andrea Owen, global speaker, entrepreneur, life coach since 2007, and author of three books that have been translated into 18 languages and are available in 22 countries. Each week, I'll bring you a guest or a lesson that will help you maximize unshakable confidence, master resilience and make some noise in your life. Are you ready? Let's go.

Welcome to another episode of the podcast everyone. I am so glad that you are with us today. Rae McDaniel is here on the show. And I'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation I had with them. And it was super interesting and informative. And also Rae has the most fascinating upbringing story, I'm gonna wait for you to hear the conversation so you can hear it. It's the first, is definitely a first for the podcast.

But before we get into that, I want to remind you, I need your stories. I need your stories. You listening right here for the launch of my new book, make some noise that's coming out August 31. We're going to do something special over here on the show, and I am gathering audio of your stories of how you have made noise in your life. So here's some examples. Maybe you asked for a raise or promotion or went after your dream job and you were terrified to do it. Tell us what happened. How did you prepare? Or maybe set a boundary with someone? Or did you quit a habit that was bringing you down not serving you? Maybe a person that you quit? Or something like drinking? How did you get the courage to walk away from that? Did you give an opinion or ask questions or speak up at a work meeting where you have been nervous to do so previously? Did you change your relationship with money? how and what happened? Did your self-confidence grow recently? These are the types of things that we want to know we want to hear from you. I want to make this a community party, a community celebration, when Make some noise comes out for everyone to read. AndreaOwen.com/talk you will see all the guidelines and there is a couple of clicks that you need to make over there and you can record it right into your phone. I am so excited to do this. I cannot wait to hear your stories. And all the information that you need to know is over there AndreaOwen.com/talk.

All right, let me tell you a little bit about our guest today. Rae McDaniel is a non-binary gender and sex therapist turned coach who works with transgender non-binary and questioning folks who are feeling lost while transitioning their gender identity. They are the creator of GenderFck The Club, a one of a kind, researched based online group coaching community of transgender, non-binary and questioning folk who are on a mission to transition with less suffering and more ease. Rae is the founder of Practical Audacity, a gender and sex therapy practice in Chicago. They also provide training for medical and mental health professionals wishing to uplevel their knowledge in trans-affirming care. Rae holds a Master's of education in community counseling. And without further ado, here is Rae.

Rae, thank you so much for being on the show.

Rae 04:13
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Andrea 04:17
I have so many questions because I heard your episode with Sara Jean who introduced us. And one of one of the questions I have is around your upbringing, because you tell us about so your parents were puppeteers correct?

Rae 04:33
Yes. Correct.

Andrea 04:35
Okay, we're not going to spend the whole time talking.

Rae 04:37
But you kind of have to mention it.

Rae 04:39
I was so fascinated by this. As someone who grew up, I have some years on you so I grew up watching Mr. Rogers Neighborhood and the land of make believe. kind of scared me a little bit those puppets.

Rae 04:53
Yeah, I don't blame you. Some puppets are terrifying. I think we had a mix of somewhat terrifying, especially at the beginning, and we didn't really know what we were doing. And then we had Muppet style puppets, which were okay more fluffy.

Andrea 05:11
Yeah. And a little bit more. I think like child friendly. Yeah. So, okay. I'm only gonna ask this one question. How does one get into the business of puppeteering?

Rae 05:21
That is such a great question. Honestly, I don't 100% know. So it was my dad who started it when I was probably eight or nine is about when he brought home his first puppet. And I legitimately don't know how he got that in his head. But he got it in his head. He went to a puppetry conference because those exist. Wow. Okay, yeah, there's a whole subculture here that you don't even know about. So he went to this puppetry conference got really into it, I was nine. So wanted to be with my dad, and, you know, wanted his approval and to hang out. So I started doing puppets as well. And then my mom started soon after that. And by the time I was 12, and we had been performing for a while then, they decided that they wanted to go on the road full time. So they sold our house. And we lived in travel trailers and motels, and finally a motor home, which was a vast upgrade. Very happy about that. But I spent five years of my life traveling around the United States doing Christian puppetry, which is a subculture of a subculture, four nights a week, for five years, we moved every four days to a new place to perform. And that was my life.

Andrea 06:59
Now I have so many more questions that I'm not going to ask. So is this, I just have one more question? Was this in the 90s?

Rae 07:06
Well, late 90s through the 2000s. Okay. Okay.

Andrea 07:12
The reason I ask is because I've recently been doing a deep dive into purity culture. And I know that was really big in the 90s. And, I mean, it's always been big within Christianity, but then it officially had a name. And it was like a movement. It was specially in the youth.

Rae 07:27
Yeah, yeah, I was in that purity cult. And I could tell you stories.

Andrea 07:34
I had just gotten out. And when I say gotten out, I mean, I just made the decision to just not go to churches anymore. And now I've made it a pretty significant spiritual transition. But okay, let's, let's move on before Andrea just spends the whole time asking questions about about puppets. It's just it's a fascinating, fascinating topic. It really is.

But more importantly, I am wondering if you would tell us speaking of your childhood, your experience coming out as queer to what I understand was not the most supportive parents and you were in the south. Is that, is that right?

Rae 08:11
Yeah, I grew up in rural Louisiana, kind of right on the border between Louisiana and Texas. So I spent time in Boca. Yeah, it was quite a journey. So as you can imagine having Christian missionary puppeteer parents, I was very deep within that world. And it when I was growing up, it wasn't even an option to identify as queer. It didn't even cross my mind because it was so far outside of my reality. I got to undergrad. And I became friends with the theater kids. And it's amazing to me how our subconscious draws us to the people that we need to be around. And in the super, super conservative Christian College, the theater kids were the only kind of out-ish kids on campus, which you couldn't be fully out because you could get expelled for that. Wow. So they were my best friends and I saw them navigating their coming out experience. And I realized watching that, that I wanted to become a therapist to work with the LGBTQ population to help people like my friends. And then I went off to grad school in Chicago. And it, honestly the moment that I was going along Lakeshore drive and that U-Haul, I felt like I could breathe for the first time in my life.

And within a few months, I had officially come out as queer to myself first of all, and then my friends from college who it was very anticlimactic, they were not surprised at all, you know, surprise, surprise and after it was in grad school, so in a period of about a year and a half to two years, I came out to my parents, I knew that wasn't going to go well. So I kind of put it off for a while. And it didn't go well at all. They responded very much with a hate the sin, love the sinner type of thing, which, to me isn't really how love works, or at least not the way that I want love to work in my life. And I remember very vividly, I was in the parking lot at work. And I was working at an LGBTQ Counseling Center. And my mom had called me, for the first time since I had come out to them the first time we had spoken. And I was trying to talk to her about it. And my dad grabbed the phone yelled at me to stay away from his wife and his family. He threatened a restraining order against me. Yeah. And it has, you know, since then it's been a bit of a strain, I see them. But it's always a choice between keeping it peaceful and pleasant, which means shoving down very, very big parts of my identity, and just who I am in the world, or standing up for myself advocating for myself, which sometimes feels good, and sometimes I just don't have capacity for.

Andrea 11:26
Mm hmm. Oh, my gosh, do you have siblings?

Rae 11:28
that's also an interesting question. So I did not grow up with siblings. I'm adopted. I was adopted when I was a baby. But in the past couple of years, I've actually found a biological sibling. So I do have a sister, but we didn't grow up together.

Andrea 11:47
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So you were essentially an only child. So you don't have anyone to lean on. That, you know, that that understands your parents, I'm assuming.


Rae 11:55
The only people that I had, I had two friends that were very, very close to me. And I think we met when I was about 15. So two very close friends who really saw the reality of what I was dealing with and knew my parents. And that was incredibly helpful.

Andrea 12:19
So I watched the Netflix documentary Disclosure, my gosh, when was that maybe a year or so ago. And for those people who haven't seen it, I will drop a link in the show notes. What was not surprising to me, but interesting to watch, you know, as the story is being told, by, by queer people, that the narrative of so many things, but more specifically gender transition, and how it has to include so much suffering and anguish and anxiety. So when you hear that it's understandable that it's damaging, I'm assuming, so how do you, I would love for you to speak to that.

Rae 12:59
So this is really the core of my work now. So I identify as non-binary, I use they them pronouns. And I'm a therapist working primarily with the LGBTQ population, but specifically, my focus is on the trans and non-binary population. And what I was seeing, both in the media and things like Disclosure, and just the general narrative, is that the center of gender transition is suffering. And that doesn't come from nowhere. We know even in 2021, we have a record number of anti-trans legislation and bills that are trying to be passed. We know that 2021 so far, has the most number of trans related murders, I think since 2015, and that number really increases every year. I share that stat every year and increase the year.

But what I was really curious about is does it have to be full of suffering? Is that the only option. And not wanting to to minimize the suffering that, and the discrimination, that trans people experience. But being very curious about? Is there a way that we could do this better? Is there a way that gender transition can feel easier? And so I started looking around, I started digging into psychology research in resiliency, coping, identity development, minority stress, I pulled on fields other than psychology, like Human Centered Design thinking, and mindfulness and grounding models, and started to put together a model of key concepts and skills that people could to focus on during gender transition to make that journey feel a bit easier, less anxiety provoking, and just generally more pleasurable and focused on self-growth. And that has really formed the core of what I do for the past few years.

Andrea 15:19
That's interesting. And, and I don't mean to make a dismissive analogy at all, and please forgive me if I'm doing that. But when you were saying that it reminds me of childbirth and how, during baby showers, so many women tell horror stories of birth and all this pain and suffering and like, yeah, childbirth hurts, but at the same time, like, there's so many stories of joy and beauty, and we can change the narrative, like, we don't have to make people afraid of it. It's really just natural.

Rae 15:52
Absolutely. And I don't think that's minimizing at all, I actually really like that analogy. And it's also quite timely, because my very best friend gave birth two days ago. And so I'm very intimately familiar with the pain and the joy right now. And I think the piece of that analogy that really sticks out to me, is acknowledging that it's painful, yes, it's a hard thing for people to go through. But on the other side of it, I don't really know anybody who regrets giving birth. They're all really happy about this new life that they've brought into the world. And I think that's the message of what I do as well is, it's not about saying it doesn't hurt. It's not about saying it's not hard. But it's about saying what you get on the other side of that is amazing and beautiful. And maybe that journey doesn't have to be so fear provoking or anxiety provoking.

Andrea 16:54
Right. I'm curious what your personal and professional opinion is, around these laws that are, are are being passed in trying to be pushed through, especially in these southern states? What do you think that that is really about? Is it? Is it just about people not understanding and being afraid of, you know, evolving as a human species? Or do you think it's something deeper than that?

Rae 17:18
I think it's a little bit of both. So one thing that I talk about in my work is that the foundation of biology, when it comes to sex and gender, we assume that it's very binary, right? A baby pops out, it's, it's a boy or it's a girl. And I think some of us have some understanding that there might be people who were born who have a difference in sexual development, or who were intersex. But we really think it's such a small amount, that it it doesn't matter when we're creating this binary system. But what we know from biology is that the number of people who have some sort of difference of sexual development, that is they don't fit squarely in that binary box of male or female, is roughly the amount of people in the world who are redheads or put another way, twice the population of Canada. So, yeah. So what we know now is that there is a vast diversity of biology. And in my opinion, I think what that does, and what people are afraid of in that department, is it shakes up a foundational belief of what we know to be true about the world. Gender is something that for a lot of people, for most people is foreclosed on to your psychology language, it's decided on you feel firm and that identity, very, very young, usually around three, four or five years old. And so it feels very foundational to who we are. And to shake up that system, I think is scary for people. I also think that people are fearful of what they don't understand. And they're, they're fearful of difference. And I think that is where so much of this this hate and this discrimination, which is what I consider those laws to be coming from.

Andrea 19:22
Yes. And I wholeheartedly agree. It's, it's interesting. Watching my my children are 11 and 13. And my husband and I are mid and late 40s. And we were watching the show The Politician. Have you seen it?

Rae 19:46
I have Yeah, I love that show.

Andrea 19:48
Okay, so the character James. It was such great acting really great writing too. If you guys haven't seen it, it's it's fantastic. So we're watching it and my husband, so sweet and doing his best to learn. he pauses it. He turns to me and he says, is James a boy or a girl? And I said I don’t know, I don't think that's really the point of anything probably non-binary and, and it's and watching his face and him try his best to wrap his head around it. And I really only think it's easier for me because I am in the world of personal development where I have accepted so many different pains and I just have more of a resilience with talking about hard things. And that's not his world. And I'm so I'm watching him kind of trying to wrap his head around it and having such a hard time. And then my children, I mean, he's open to it, like, I'll give him that. And he's not judgmental, but it's, it's interesting to watch. And my kids who, it's really just a non-issue for them. It's just not. And you know, my husband and I Gen Xers we grew up where that was not we grew up in Southern California and even growing up someone who was gay was just not, it was just not okay. Yeah. And then, you know, then we had the AIDS crisis and that whole history. And so it's just been an interesting, it's an interesting dynamic watching the difference in generations.

Rae 21:20
Absolutely. In my experience, most kids and when I say kids, I mean up through college at this point,
if you tell them that your identity is non-binary, or they have a question about gender, it usually goes like, oh, cool, thanks, can I have pancakes now? They don't care.

Andrea 22:45
But there's no weight to it.

Rae 22:47
There's no weight to it at all. But for folks who didn't grow up with that language, and we had the, you know, the time article about the transgender tipping point that came out a few years ago, our knowledge of trans and non-binary identities has increased so much, and even just the past 10 years, but it's still really new for a lot of people. And it takes a little bit of developing some new neural synapses. And that's okay.

Andrea 22:11
Right, and what I explained to him, because he gets frustrated at himself, that it's difficult for him, and I said, you know, we as humans, like, we like to categorize things, you know, you are good or bad, you are tall or short, you are a man or woman. And so, it is like learning a bit of a new language, you know, go easy on yourself, but just do your best to be respectful when you encounter someone.

Rae 22:36
Absolutely. And the way the brain works, and I'm sure you already know this, but I'd like to view it as a wheat field or a field of really tall grass, where you've gotten an opportunity to walk down one particular path so much that the wheat or the grass is laid down, and it's very easy to automatically go that way. You don't even have to think about it. When we're learning new concepts that are outside the category of categories that our brain has created, like male or female, we have to walk down a bit of an unknown path through that wheat field. And we have to walk it over and over and over again, until it is just as easy to walk down as the path that we grew up with or the path that we're used to. It just takes a little bit more effort to get those those synapses to fire and make those connections.

Andrea 23:36
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Let's talk a little bit about ally-ship and what it means to be a good ally, you know, to the transgender and non-binary community and and can you talk a little bit about trans affirming language and the gender spectrum? You know, that was a gigantic question.

Rae 25:55
So I can start with just kind of the basics. I already talked about one of the big basics, which is biological sex, and how there is a vast diversity, way more than we thought about biological sex. So I think that's a very good foundation to build on. Because our entire gender system is based on this idea which is erroneous, that there are only two biological sexes. So baby comes out. Doctor says it's a boy or it's a girl or in some cases that that child may identify as intersex or get assigned intersex. And then building on that as our gender identity. And gender identity is that deeply felt sense of our gender inside. And like I said, most people have that sense around age 3-4-5, especially for cisgender. folks who are folks who identify with the sex that they were assigned at birth. So if you popped out of the womb doctor says it's a girl, you grew up and say, ‘Yep, I'm a woman that feels great’. You are cisgender that C-I-S Latin prefix, it simply means ‘on the same side as’. So let's say you pop out of the womb, and the doctor says it's a girl, and you grow up and you say, ‘Well, no, that doesn't really feel like it fits, I feel like I am a man’. Then that person would be a transgender man. Trans is a Latin prefix, it means on the ‘other side as’ so you're on the other side of what you were assigned at birth. So third option, and this is my options is how I identify. I popped out of the womb, the doctor says it's a girl. And I grew up that fell largely okay, but not quite right. And I also knew I didn't identify as a man, I identify somewhere squarely in the middle as non-binary. So I personally don't feel like I fit the checkbox of male or female. And there's a lot of different names that people call that kind of in the middle identity, like gender queer, non-binary, might hear lots of different options like that. But that's what that means. And then…

Andrea 28:27
Is it also non gender conforming?

Rae 28:31
Yep, that's it too.

Andrea 28:32

Rae 28:33
Lots and lots of different ways that people identify they're building on that one more level is gender expression, which is simply how you choose to express that gender to the world, which may or may not match up with society's expectations for either your assigned gender at birth, or your gender identity.

Andrea 28:52
Okay, and then how would someone who's you know whether they're brand new to this, or somewhat seasoned? How can you give us some? Can you talk to us a little bit about allyship? And what would that actually look like for people?

Rae 29:08
Absolutely. The good news is that the basics go a really long way. So using the name that somebody wants to be called, even if that isn't their legal name, using the pronouns that they want to use, and asking about people's pronouns, and then using both someone's name and their pronouns consistently. That is such a huge flag and it goes so so far. Another thing would be watching your assumptions. You can't tell that somebody is trans or non-binary just from looking at them. So I generally say that it's best practice to ask for everybody's pronouns. The other thing would be not assuming relationships, my my partner and I, and we're both nonbinary individuals are both assigned female at birth, we get asked all the time and public if we are related, which is hilarious to us at this point. And now we have just decided we're going to just awkwardly kiss each other when people ask that to make people uncomfortable, so not assuming those relationships. And also not assuming that gender is a binary, or that being trans means one particular thing in terms of somebodies transition journey. So not asking about things like the surgery. A lot of trans folks don't want any sort of medical intervention. And some people want some types of medical intervention, but not others. Being trans is not about having bottom surgery, it is about your internal identity. And for some folks, that means a medical, legal and/or social transition. And for other folks, it might look totally different. So not making assumptions about that is a big one as well. The other thing that I see a lot, and this is, especially with parents or loved ones, is remembering that your loved ones transition isn't about you. So the person is simply evolving into more of who they authentically are. And that's something to celebrate. Even if there are parts of it that you have to do some emotional processing around or that are difficult, like a child or a loved one, changing their name or changing their body in some way. And to remember that discomfort isn't harm, that they are not harming you by changing something about themselves, even if it's uncomfortable, or it's hard to get used to for you.


Andrea 32:06
Okay, thank you for all of that. It's that is incredibly helpful. And the way I look at it, if I can just tag on to that is it just takes practice and more specifically in terms of, of using they them pronouns, of, you know, watching when you're making assumptions and just getting curious about it. It's not about, you know, beating yourself up, because that's not that's not helpful for anyone, like you're not going to beat yourself up into being a better ally. It's not how it works. So having some compassion for yourself, getting curious, asking, I'm assuming, you know, asking respectable, respectful questions, and yeah, and the way I look at it, it's just a practice, like, are you going to mess up? Sure. Just keep trying and and asking how you can support someone? If you're, you know, depending on your relationship to them? I'm assuming that's probably a good way of finding out what the answer is.

Rae 33:02
Yes, absolutely. My rule of thumb is that if you didn't ask them about their genitals before they came out as trans or non-binary, you probably shouldn't ask them about it now. As a general rule.

Andrea 33:18
Yea. I was thinking about that. When you were when you were saying that I thought to myself, I can't imagine someone asking me about my labia. Like, how's your labia looking in middle age these days Andrea? Like, no, nobody would feel so literally no one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What an odd question.

Rae 33:38
Yep. And I love what you said about it, not beating yourself up. I think we both know that shame is just not a motivator for change. If you are stuck in a place of shame, what that is going to do is it's going to disconnect you from the person that you're trying to connect with, which isn't helpful to anybody. We're all going to make mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes. What is important in relationships is how we repair from those mistakes, and how we move on and learn from them.

Andrea 34:10
How we repair 100 100%? Can you tell us what? I think you've touched on it a decent amount so far, but is there anything else around what to do and what not to do? When someone comes out to you?

Rae 34:23
I think you named one of the things that I would say, which is to ask how you can support them. Because that answer is gonna look different for different people. And it's gonna look different depending on your relationship to them. So it might be something where they don't want to be asked a ton of questions about their identity or what their plans are. They might just want you to know their names and pronouns and that's kind of it and that's okay. On the other hand, if you have a close relationship, and they're Looking for support, it might feel really good to them to have a space where they can talk about their journey, where you can be curious and in a respectful way, about what's going on for them. So I think number one is asking them what that support looks like for them. Another thing is advocating for them. If you see discrimination happening, or microaggressions, or someone else not using their name and pronouns, it can feel like a lot of pressure for someone who is coming out as trans or non-binary, to constantly be correcting people, and to stand up for themselves all the time. And they might not always have capacity for that. So it can feel really good to know that people have their back. And whatever setting that you're in. And having their back may also look different. Some people will want you to correct people right then and there in the moment. Some people might want you to just check in on them afterwards and see how they're feeling or offer to go on a walk with them so they can have a break. That's where that asking what support looks like comes in as well.

Andrea 36:15
Okay, yeah, it sounds like best thing to do is just ask because I know you don't speak for the entire queer community. Well, I want to ask one more question before we wrap up and tell everyone where they can find more of you. But what advice do you have for parents who either suspect that their child might be trans or non-binary? Or their child has come out to them? Like I'm sure it depends on the age? If if people are feeling a little bit lost?

Rae 36:47
That's a really good question. So everything that I just said about allyship applies here as well. If a parent is suspecting that their child might be trans or non-binary, I would say start incorporating more diversity into what you're watching into what you're listening to into what you're reading, which can offer a really nice and pressure free jumping point, for general conversations around trans and non-binary identities. What I hear a lot from either adult children, I don't work with anybody under the age of 18. So adult children who are navigating that now, or people I work with, that are reflecting on their experience when they were younger, is even with parents who turned out to be supportive, because those parents weren't incorporating more diversity and weren't talking about those things that the children didn't know that the parents would be affirming. So kind of slipping in some comments, just to let them know that if they did come out as trans or non-binary, that they would be affirmed can go a really long way.

Seeing positive role models in the trans community can go a really long way. And we're seeing more and more media come out with positive representations of trans folks that doesn't portray them only as being murdered or sex workers, which has been the trope for a long time, right? Not that there's anything wrong with being a sex worker at all. But we need more narratives than that. And we're starting to see them. So incorporating more of those, there's a lot of really great trans influencers online that have a lot of really positive things to say. So I think incorporating all of that into your life is a big deal. Getting a child support. So I'm, I'm a therapist, I have a therapist, I'm in favor of everybody having a therapist, I think it's great. And they can provide a, an outlet for your child to talk about whatever is going on for them and be supported in a way that doesn't activate that safety button at in the same way that it does with parents, if you come out to a parent, and it turns out that it's not safe. That's a much bigger deal than having that conversation with a therapist first, who can maybe help you and support you and having those conversations. So that would just be a few things I would say.

Andrea 39:39
Yeah, I thank you for that so much. I follow Jeffrey Marsh on Instagram, TikTok, follow them. That's a great one and I'll pop the link in the shownotes for those of you that that want to follow Jeffrey. And I want to tag on a couple of things that I think is so important. It just sort of underscore what you said and and this is something I did as a parent that I did not because I was trying to win parent of the year by any stretch, but because it was something that wasn't done for me. And it's exactly what you said about just dropping in things casually that affirm really, anything is okay for my kids. So for instance, if we're having a conversation and I said, ‘Well, if you when you grow up, and if you choose to get married’, that was one thing, I always said, yeah, if you choose to get married, because not the assumption that you will, or that that's what's important in life, if you choose to get married, like if I'm talking to my daughter, like I would say, like to a man or a woman. And now I'm going to add this conversation or non-binary person. And it's just I think that's one of the ways that it just became a non-issue for queerness and just things that aren't as they have been for so many decades before.

Rae 41:06
It really goes a long way.

Andrea 41:08
It matters. Do you know, if I always tell people to go to PsychologyToday.com to find a therapist in their area. And I'm assuming that if someone I'm hoping that more and more therapists are specializing in this, so do you know if Psychology Today if someone can search on their for for someone like you?

Rae 41:17
they can and Psychology Today also recently added some checkboxes for therapist identity. So you can also go on there and search for a therapist who identifies as trans or non-binary. But there's also a search function for people who say that they work with trans and non-binary folks. I will say this as a caveat. There are many therapists, unfortunately, who just check all the boxes, but don't, don't actually specialize. So just make sure that you do your research, check out their web page, if they have that too, and read their profile, make sure that it the vibe is good, and that you're getting a sense that they are actually an affirming provider, versus just somebody who has checked all the boxes.

Andrea 42:05
Thank you for that. I didn't know that. Just some people default to check all the boxes. Rae, thank you so much for this. It's been so incredibly helpful. And I'm honored to have you come in and tell part of your story and inform us. Where can people find more about you and follow you online? Where do you want to send them?

Rae 42:22
So they can find me at GenderFk.club, that's GenderF-C-K.club. And then if folks are wanting specific resources around trans identities, you can go to GenderFCK.club/resources. You can also find me on Instagram, @PracticalAudacity, and anywhere on the social medias @PracticalAudacity. And if folks are really wanting to keep up with me, I have a mailing list. I would love for folks to sign up for that as well.

Andrea 42:56
Thank you again, so much. And everyone those links are going to be in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening here. I know how valuable your time is, and I appreciate it so much that you choose to spend it with me and my guests. I would love if you would take a screenshot of this episode wherever you listen to your podcasts, share it in your Instagram stories and tag myself and Rae and I always do my best to try and repost those. And remember, it's our life's journey to make ourselves better humans and our life's responsibility to make the world a better place by everyone.