PODCAST & BLOG

PODCAST & BLOG

I love learning about different trauma therapies and giving you options to find specialists who can help you heal. TikTok is rife with mental health professionals giving sound advice. I first came to know this week’s guest, Simone Saunders, when I saw her Tiktok video about a symptom of trauma: a sense of a foreshortened future. 

Simone is a mental health and wellness-based content creator and licensed therapist. She is known for creating content that breaks down psychoeducational topics into digestible pieces, normalizing mental health issues, and giving an inside look at the therapy process.

Together, Simone and I have a conversation about Accelerated Resolution Therapy, understanding internal family systems, and unpacking the various symptoms of trauma and failed attachment in childhood. 

You’ll hear:

  • Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART) and how it helps reprogram the way in which traumatic memories and images are stored in the brain so that they no longer trigger strong physical and emotional reactions. (6:04)
  • How Internal Family Systems (IFS) to help individuals to heal. Simone shares some of the common categories of parts firefighters, managers, and exiles, as well.  (10:00)
  • A symptom of trauma that is not talked about enough is a sense of a foreshortened future. Simone explains what it is and how it shows up. (23:30)
  • Hyper-Independence and its relation to attachment. (25:30)
  • How to talk to your family about your mental health journey and experience with therapy. (31:15)
  • Simone answers, “Is therapy a life-long journey and should you take therapy breaks?” (40:38)

Resources mentioned in this episode:
Simone's website

Simone on Instagram
Join me for The Daring Way Retreat Open House! March 29th at 1 pm ET. I'll be going over the curriculum and doing a Q&A.
Episode 432: CASTMWUP: Andrea and Amy on profound humiliation and its impact
Episode 433: When you lose a very good dog

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Simone Saunders is mental health & wellness-based content creator and licensed therapist in Calgary, Alberta. She is primarily known for creating content that breaks down psychoeducational topics into digestible pieces, normalizing mental health issues, and giving an inside look at the therapy process. Her overall goal is to continue to contribute to the destigmatization of mental health and provide accessible resources, especially within the BIPOC community.

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SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Simone 00:00
A lot of times what I find that people struggle with is okay, if I acknowledged that maybe my parents did the best they could, then that means that my experiences aren't valid. And that's not true. And both can be true that your parents did the best they could with the information and the resources that they had at the time and also you didn't get your needs met, and that caused damage for you.

Andrea 00:24
You're listening to Make Some Noise Podcast episode number 435 with guest Simone Saunders.

Welcome to Make Some Noise Podcast, your guide for strategies, tools and insights to empower yourself. I'm your host, Andrea Irwin, global speaker, entrepreneur, life coach since 2007, and author of three books that have been translated into 18 languages and are available in 22 countries. Each week, I'll bring you a guest or a lesson that will help you maximize unshakable confidence, master resilience and make some noise in your life. You ready? Let's go.

Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the podcast. It feels really awkward. Considering the minisode that I put out on Friday, about my beloved dog passing away. And then a week and a half before that was the conversation about shit that matters with unqualified people where I cried again, on the podcast. I feel awkward. You probably don't feel awkward. Before I forget, on March 29, it's a Tuesday at one o'clock Eastern time, I'm having an open house virtually and it's for anyone who is interested in the Daring Way retreat that I'm having in September, we have a few spots left. And I'll probably do a couple of these maybe. But it's for anyone who's like, what is the curriculum? What am I going to walk away with after I do this retreat? How does the curriculum get rolled out? Is it lecture the whole time, etc, etc. I'm also going to show basically, it's 12 videos that Brené does, hosts if you will, they're anywhere from two minutes long to I think the longest one is 17 minutes long and that's by far the longest. And that's how the curriculum looks. And there's worksheets and discussion and sharing and all these things. I am going to show at the open house, the introduction video, it's the very first one, it's just a handful of minutes ao you can get a feel of what it's like what it's going to be about. Brené explains it really well. I'll be there to answer any questions, of course. And I'm also going to have someone there who's been through the curriculum, and who's also going to be my right-hand woman at the retreat. Jessica Sharpe, she's actually been here on the show before. And she can answer any questions too, about what it's like to be a participant in the program. So again, it's March 29. At one o'clock Eastern. You don't need to sign up for anything with your email, there is a link in the show notes that you just click on it. This is so convenient. You just click on it and it automatically go goes into your calendar and the Zoom link is there and everything. So you just show up with the Zoom link and hopefully I'll see you there.

Okay, today's guest is another therapist I found on TikTok. I'm telling you all TikTok is rife, with therapists with mental health professionals giving so much great advice and information over there. So Simone Saunders is here and the very first TikTok that I saw of her as she was talking about, that for some people, they have a symptom of trauma, not everyone, but some people where they have a feeling of a foreshortened future. So interesting. It just got my attention, and I wanted to have her on. So I do ask her about that. We also talk about more trauma therapies, which I love. I love learning about it and giving all of you options to find specialists that can help you heal. And last, I just wanted to quickly apologize for anyone who has sensitive ears because we had a little bit of an audio thing going on, there was a microphone situation, rubbing on a color situation that does get rectified after a few minutes. But again, I know that can drive some people crazy, but please rest assured it does stop after a few minutes.

All right, let me tell you a little bit about our guest today. Simone Saunders is a mental health and wellness-based content creator and licensed therapist in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. She is primarily known for creating content that breaks down psychoeducational topics into digestible pieces, normalizing mental health issues and giving an inside look on the therapy process. Her overall goal is to continue to contribute to the destigmatization nope, that's not how you say it. That is a better than mouthful. To the destigmatization, there we go. The destigmatization of mental health and provide accessible resources, especially within the BIPOC community. So without further ado, here is Simone.

Simone, thank you so much for being here.

Simone 05:18
Thank you for having me.

Andrea 05:20
I'm excited to have this conversation. We are doing a theme over the last, we're a couple months in now, actually, we might even be kind of headed towards the end of talking about and trying to answer the question, you know, how do we heal, which I'm going to ask you later about that. But it's I've had a lot of experts on and therapists and so some of these topics we've covered before, but I also I always like to talk to various experts on this. And I want to start with Accelerated Resolution Therapy, because that's something I had never heard of until I saw your practice. It's also called ART. So can you talk to us about how that helps, from what I understand it reprograms the way in which traumatic memories and images are stored in the brain. Is that correct?

Simone 06:04
Yeah, absolutely. So essentially, it uses bilateral stimulation, so using both sides of the brain. And so it's similar to EMDR in that sentence, where you have the therapist and their hand is moving back and forth in order to your eyes kind of follow their hand so that allows you to kind of process things. And so the difference between ART and EMDR, because those are the most comparable treatments is that ART is a little bit more contained, where EMDR is kind of using free association, whereas ART your therapist will be working with you to talk about the memories that you want to process or the experiences that you want to process and you kind of use a memory that you have like a beginning middle and end, and then you process that memory from start to finish. So by the end of the ART session, there is some sort of containment whereas with treatments like EMDR, you might find that you have some sort of hangover emotional hangover afterwards.

Andrea 07:01
Yes, I've experienced that before with EMDR. I've experienced that before with probably every somatic therapy that I've done. That feeling of just emotional exhaustion, and like you said, like a hangover. So ART typically doesn't have that?

Simone 07:18
Yeah, like you might experience some exhaustion because it is a lot of work. But you might not the difference in terms of the hangover pieces that you won't necessarily experience the activation afterwards. Whereas EMDR, you might be experiencing activation afterwards, after the session, and so with ART there is kind of like finality whether or not you're able to process the memory fully in that session, there is a way to contain it so that you don't experience activation outside of the session.

Andrea 07:46
So when you said, did you say free association that you that's something that EMDR… Is that the term that you used? What does that mean?

Simone 07:55
Yeah, so essentially, it just means like, whatever kind of comes up. So I know that with EMDR, you're processing sensations as they come and whatever memories come up, versus ART, it's very planned in the sense that you go through all of these things with your therapist and really nail down exactly what memory you want to be processing so that all these things don't come up. And so if it does come up in the session, the therapist is able to process, those things as they come along. But with EMDR, it's kind of all your cards are on the table, so I can see where it can be triggering.

Andrea 08:30
So if somebody was trying to process a car accident, for instance, with EMDR, it would be sort of like the whole the accident as a whole. But with ART it would be like what did you see? Like as the car was coming at you, when you hit the brakes, like that type of…? Is that correct?

Simone 08:46
Sort of. So okay, I guess the best way I could describe it is with EMDR, you might, let's say you want to process some childhood trauma, right? So you might not have specific memories so you might just go off base of maybe a couple situations in your childhood, and whatever memories, whatever sensations come up, come up. And that might feel really overwhelming. Versus ART you really categorize things into different categories in order to process those things. So that you have specific memories within a specific category in order to process things one at a time, so that it's a little bit more contained.

Andrea 09:23
Okay, gotcha. So that brings me to another question I was going to ask you later on, but it dovetails nicely and that's what if some individuals can't remember their past trauma? Do they need to have concrete memories?

Simone 09:35
With ART yes and no. So you have to have some sort of memory for ART. With other somatic-based therapies, you don't necessarily need to you mostly just have to tap into the somatic based feeling so the physical symptoms that are coming up for you. So with ART, yes, you do need to access the memories in order to be able to process those memory pieces. But that's not the case with all trauma therapy.

Andrea 10:00
Okay, okay, that that makes sense. Can we talk about internal family systems. We've talked about it a few times here on the show, but we haven't gone in depth. And so can you talk to us about the different parts and how this self is so important? Can you kind of break down… Like, let's go inside, like open the door for us. Like, if you were your client, kind of give us an overview of what of what that looks like the different parts?

Simone 10:28
Yeah, absolutely. So I really like internal family systems, because I think that it's a great way to create distance, in order to bring compassion. And so with internal family systems, what you're really looking at is your protector parts, right? Which are categorized into so proactive and reactive. So your reactive parts would be those firefighter parts. So firefighter parts would come up when there's some sort of emotional activation that you don't want to feel. So that typically might look like things like suicidal thoughts, or impulsive spending.

Andrea 11:06
That also like lashing out in an argument with someone?

Simone 11:09
Yeah. So it's, it's those protector parts that come up when there's things that you know, you don't want to feel. And then the proactive parts, that's the manager, right? And so those are the things that keep your day to day. So those might be things like, if you're someone who typically overworked yourself, or is so busy that you don't have space in your day to think about stuff. That is your manager working so that you don't have to experience any of that emotional activation that might be there if you were kind of laying low for a few weeks.

Andrea 11:39
I'm assuming that like the manager parts are kind of like the more noble, and I'm like using air quotes, like the noble excuses for running away from our problems, like, you know, oh, she's so ambitious and she works so hard. She does…oh, she's so successful. Or, oh, you know, she's doing the Ironman. I've met, I've met a handful of elite athletes in my days, who are clients, I'm like, okay, what is this about? Is that what kind of what the manager does?

Simone 12:07
Yeah, it's just a part of yourself that you kind of might not really think too much about until you dig deeper into it, and why are you doing these things? So in what capacity is it helping you? And in what capacity is it hindering you in terms of being able to connect with your emotional self, and what's really going on.

Andrea 12:26
I am assuming that that is similar to what I talked about when I talk about self care, and how our numbing out behaviors and our self-care behaviors can often be the same thing and like, we're the only ones who can decide… People like asking me like, well, how do I know when I'm, you know, eating too much chocolate or when I'm working out too much? And tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm like, there's not a charge. Like, I can’t tell you like you're the one who knows. And it's about tapping into your intuition and getting still long enough and having the right support to be able to understand when you have crossed the line into unhealthy behaviors. Is that fair?

Simone 13:05
Yeah, absolutely because I think someone else's, you know, just I feel great today and, and I want a snack and I want to treat and so I'm going to have some chocolate, that might be just someone's, you know, having a good night. And that may be another person's okay, I'm avoiding my feelings. So, I agree. I think it's really about tapping into really understanding your emotional experience and what's going on for you, and are you, you know, gravitating towards these behaviors because, you know, you just are having a good night and you just want to relax and spend time with yourself or other people or is it about not wanting to be still.

Andrea 13:40
Got it. Okay. So we covered man is a firefighters and managers and then who else is part of the internal family system?

Simone 13:48
So you also have your exiles. The exiles are those kind of hurt parts, and those parts that are burdened with traumas, essentially. And so those are the parts that the managers and the reactive protectors are trying to keep at bay. So when I talk about those feelings of like, okay, you know, addictions or you know, suicidal thoughts, or impulsive spending, all that kind of stuff. Those firefighters come up when the exiles might come out. So the exiles are those parts that have been burdened with feelings that you don't want to feel. So that might be childhood trauma, that might be just really hurt parts of yourself childhood parts, typically, that are too painful for you to feel.

Andrea 14:37
Okay, and so by exile, is that sort of like the parts of yourself that have been pushed down and hidden, for lack of a better word because they are so painful? Okay, okay. I'm thinking of parts of myself that way. And then is that it and then there's the self, are we missing any parts?

Simone 14:58
Yeah. So those are like the main part. So, the exiles are getting like those, you know, dismissed childhood abandoned, abused or neglected parts of yourself. And then you have the protector parts, which is divided into the reactive and proactive which is the firefighters. So the reactive and the proactive as managers, and then you just have your present day self.

Andrea 15:21
Okay. And so the self is that kind of like our like our true self, our best self, if you will highest self sometimes it's called. Is that Is that what that is, and that's the part you're trying to get to run the show?

Simone 15:33
Yeah, so I would just call it your present-day self because kind of hearts are typically scattered in terms of age, right? So your exiles might be anywhere from, you know, four years old to however years old, right? And your managers or your firefighters, who knows how old those might be. But your present-day self is the one that you are attempting to add, like you said, have run the show. So the issue is that typically, there's not a lot of trust between the present-day self and the parts. And so the parts feel like they have to run the show, because they feel like they have to protect you,

Andrea 16:09
In my experience and I just didn't know about IFS because I have friends who are therapists who told me about it, I haven't worked with someone yet on it, which I is next in line for me. But I have a feeling that my exiled parts, which is my teenage self, because some really painful things happen to them, my childhood, not so much teenager years yes. Those parts are angry, like, full of rage. Like my inner teenager is full of rage and wants to be seen and heard and also doesn't trust anybody, like zero people. So is that kind of common what you see in in clients?

Simone 16:52
Yeah, it's hard to, to get to those parts, I think is really important to be aware of. So really, the beginning parts and the hard work is really getting that relationship solidified between the present-day self and the protector parts because the protector parts have to feel safe enough in order for you to get to those exiled parts.

Andrea 17:13
Got it. Okay. Yeah, it's interesting. Like I've struggled with trust, consciously, for a long time. And still, I think do it. So I imagined those exiled parts of me have a have a ways to go. They need a minute. Yeah. Oh, geez. God bless the therapist, that gets me next. Okay.

Simone 17:35
What I will say is that it is a incredible experience to witness.

Andrea 17:40
As a facilitator of the work?

Simone 17:43
Yeah, it is.

Andrea 17:45
What makes you say that? Now, I'm curious about that.

Simone 17:47
I think that it's just because it's a lot of internal work, right. So when you're doing that work with the therapist, you're really going inside. So what I ask my clients to do is I like get them through some deep breaths, and then I have them close or lower their eyes, whatever they feel more comfortable with and I'll guide them with questions to ask parts of themselves and then we'll process kind of feelings or whatever kind of comes up in those moments. But it's really beautiful to see what comes up. Even if it's painful stuff. It's beautiful to see like that relationship, start building.

Andrea 18:21
I’ll bet. I'll bet it's an honor to be able to witness that that deeper work and probably people touching parts of themselves metaphorically, that that haven't been even really, that haven't come out for whoever knows how long.

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You have talked about that a symptom of trauma that is not talked about enough. And I think I first heard you talking about this on TikTok is it is a sense of foreshortened future. So talk to us about that.

Simone 23:30
So essentially, a sense of foreshortened future is this feeling you might have, that you're not going to live as long, that you're not going to reach milestones that you want to. And like I said in the TikTok video, it can be something that is an overwhelming, like loud thought for people or it can just be something that is subtle at the back of your mind. But typically, this impacts our day-to-day life or decisions. And so for someone who struggles with that, who's maybe had a history of trauma, they may struggle with impulsivity. They may struggle to even think about the next year or the next couple of months, and they may just live in the moment. Other people might just want to be doing things, all that they can in those next few days, in this next few months or whatever, in order to make the most of their time if they don't feel like they're going to you know, finish high school, finish college, get married, whatever else, other milestones might be important to them.

Andrea 24:31
That's interesting. So I know someone who had childhood trauma more specifically some emotional neglect and just neglect in general and this person has that. Just has always thought that they weren't going to live until their old age and they have specifically said I always have a feeling it's going to be a car accident. But this person is like drastically the opposite. They plan so much and prepare so much. Are like constantly thinking of all the ways that things could go wrong and prepare for it. Like, next level boy scout stuff. It's really interesting to watch him now that you've said that I have a feeling that that's connected.

Simone 25:12
Yeah, I think it can be two opposite sides of the spectrum, right? So there's people who will experience that and then say, okay, like, I can't do anything about this so I have to live right now. And there's people that will experience that and make sure whatever they can is in their control.

Andrea 25:30
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's what it sounds like this person that I know. That's really fascinating. Yeah, you were the first person that I had heard of that, that had talked about that. Okay, let's talk about hyper independence because I've, I've talked about that in in my work, and I have my thoughts on it. And the way I see it as people… Well, I mean, we live in a culture that romanticizes that I mean, the whole concept of, you know, capitalism and colonization, like, the rugged individualism, our country was built on it. And I assume that also, especially in the wave of feminism, I've seen that, you know, more so in like, the 60s and 70s, when, because I'm a Gen Xer you know, we were raised being told you can do and be anything you want. And we took that on. Like, okay, so I need to do everything and I need to do it myself. I don't need any help from anybody. And especially, you know, I think that some you know, and even in some radical feminist spaces, you know, it's like, I don't need a man, I don't need anybody, let me do it all myself. It can… The pendulum can swing too far the other way. So I mean, those are just a couple of things, how I see hyper independence as being and also the aspect of vulnerability is scary. And and in many ways, we don't know how to show up for each other, you know, it's not just the person who's being hyper independent. It's their support system. So anyway, I would love your thoughts on it and even for us to like, have a have a back and forth about it.

Simone 27:00
Yeah, absolutely. So my perspective is more from the psychological perspective and going kind of back to attachment, right? So when we think about attachment, we think about that bond between your caregivers that gives you that blueprint of how relationships, how to navigate relationships, in adulthood in when you're a child, when you're a teenager, all that kind of stuff. And so, if you don't necessarily get your emotional needs met, when you're a child, if you don't get physical needs met, you have to learn to do it by yourself, typically. And so, as a child, if you have to do a lot of things by yourself that aren't necessarily developmentally appropriate, then you learn that I can't rely on my caregivers to meet my needs. And when your caregivers can't meet your needs, then the rhetoric, the internal message is that I can't rely on my caregivers to meet my needs, how can I rely on anybody else? And then, like you said, vulnerability is scary. And so you navigate your life being fearful of relying on other people, because the last time you did you didn't get your needs met.

Andrea 28:05
Oof. So when you have a client who comes in with that, do you first… I'm assuming that you work with them on the internal work, and you know, whether you work with you do ART or IFS or whatever it is. And then I would always make sure that people, first of all, somebody came to me with that I would refer them out to therapy. There are things that are just beyond the scope of what I do, but I always help people. Ask for what they need from or first find out what it is that you need because sometimes we don't know what we need, because we've never received it from either our caregivers or our good friends. I you know, it's just been over the last decade, if I'm being generous, where I have learned what a really beautiful, nurturing, supportive friendship is like, with the women in my life, and I have very few. Like, I don't think we have this big circle. But so my question is, I'm assuming you first heard, help them with the internal work and then do they gradually kind of like a baby deer go out there and practice asking for help and also showing up for other people?

Simone 29:09
Yeah, I think it's exactly like that. And I also think that the therapeutic relationship plays a large part in that. Because I always say that the therapeutic relationship will typically mimic the relationships that you have in your personal life. So if you really struggle with vulnerability, if you struggled to let people in, if you struggled to let people support you in a way that's really vulnerable for you, and typically that shows up in some capacity in therapy. So yes, therapy is a space where you're more vulnerable, typically than other relationships.

But if you struggle with hyper independence, typically there's a block that comes up in therapy where you don't feel like you want to be too vulnerable. So it's exploring, okay, what is it like being in this space for you when the focus is on you? When typically, you have to rely on other people to focus on you, you haven't relied on other people to care for you. And then yeah, it's doing the inner work, inner work of what do you think that you need, do have a understanding of what your needs are. And when people do show up for you, how does that feel, which is typically not comfortable.

Andrea 30:16
Isn't that interesting that, you know, we go to therapy, to get better to be able to take care of ourselves to be able to take care in a healthy way of the people around us. But many times when we go and sit on that couch, and please tell me if like if I'm going in the right direction. And these are adult people, you know, people in their 30s 40s 50s, beyond have no idea what it is that they need, or certainly can't tell you what they want.

Simone 30:45
I mean, I think that goes back to childhood, too, right? I think that, first of all mental health, emotional needs, all of these things weren't something that was talked about 10,15, 20 years ago so I think that it's definitely more talked about now. And so if your parents couldn't necessarily identify what they may be needed emotionally, then they can't teach you that. And if they can't teach you that, then you're gonna grow up not knowing. And so really, it's learning to walk.

Andrea 31:15
Yeah. What is you, this question just came from me, I, you might be totally unprepared for this but what are your thoughts about talking to family members, who I'm assuming what you see a lot is, is people come in, and they start to gather that self-awareness, and hopefully, they start to heal themselves and they might be the only one in their family, she speaks from experience, the only one in their family who's doing the work, and who has this language around things. And what I hear a lot, the question I get a lot is like, how do I talk to my family about this, they don't seem receptive, it hurts my feelings. You know, I want them to go to therapy, or I bought them this book, and they didn't even open it or worse, they make fun of me for it. What are you… And I know boundaries come into play, but what is your advice for some of your clients who come and feel hurt by that and want to make changes in their family?

Simone 32:16
I think first is acknowledging it is hard, like, is hard and sometimes it doesn't always get easier. And that that that is really hard to grieve really the relationships that you want to have with your family, if they're not in a space to be open to your suggestions, or open to hearing about your mental health journey or anything like that. So I think really, the first part is really grieving that for yourself because I think that when we can grieve those things, and adjust our expectations and really meet our family members where they're at, then that makes a world of a difference. Does that mean it doesn't hurt anymore? Absolutely not. It will still hurt. And it will still hurt that, you know, maybe at certain milestones that you want certain support from them that maybe they can't give you or, you know, you want to be able to have conversations, you want to be able to talk about certain things that maybe you won't be able to talk about. And so that's not to say that that pain goes away, but it's more about adjusting your expectations. So you don't necessarily set yourself up for these feelings of hurt.

Andrea 33:19
Massive disappointment. Yeah. A lot of expectation management. I found and I forget that sometimes, even more recently, when I saw my most recent therapist, and I wanted to have a conversation with someone in my family. And I forgot that I had to prepare myself for a lot of different… You know, sometimes we think we know our parents or our siblings or our partners and maybe we do, but we have, we have to prepare ourselves. I have found that it seems easier to hold out hope that someone close to us will change rather than accept them for who they are and that they…we have to let go of that hope that they're that they're going to change because that is like you said it's immense grief, especially when that's a parent.

Simone 34:11
Because that continual behavior of you know, bringing these things, these things to them or bringing these conversations, trying to get our needs met. Yeah, essentially, yeah, trying to get your needs met, knowing that they're maybe not in a space or not capable of meeting those needs. Like you said, it's holding on hope and when you leave that hope at the door, that can be really incredibly soul crushing, actually, and it really forces you to acknowledge my parents maybe weren't at the place that they needed to be or at that you needed them to be when you're growing up and they're still not there.

Andrea 34:48
I found that that place of in this happened for me, gosh, probably 15, 20 years ago, of seeing my parents humanity and like that shift of only seeing that I really felt it in my dad passed away in 2016. And hearing his, thank you, it was rough, but hearing his friends and family members, like tell stories from before I was born. I know this might seem sound really stupid, but it was like, oh my god, he had an entire life before me and it wasn't his only job, just to be my dad. Like he had so many other roles. And I know that sounds very selfish and like, but it's like, but I was this kid. And honestly had a role in my life.

Simone 35:37
Yeah, it doesn't sound stupid or selfish at all, honestly. And that is something that is huge in therapy, too, is recognizing that your parent is also a person because when we're children, and even as adults, you think, well, they're my parents so they're not allowed to make mistakes are allowed to do X, Y, and Z and they're supposed to know what I need at all times and when we humanize them, there's a part of grief in there as well. But there's also a point of understanding like, okay, this person is also human, which means that they struggle with different things and their inability to meet my needs is typically as a result of their needs, not being able to get met.

Andrea 36:18
A lot of that. A lot, a lot of that. It allowed me to have immense amounts of compassion, some days are easier than others, but lots of compassion. And I think I might have seen this on TikTok, but somebody was talking about how, in therapy, when your inner child meets the inner child of your parent, one of your parents, both of your parents, that can be a huge shift. It’s just seeing their own innate unmet needs. And it's complicated to me, when I look at that I'm like, oh, my God, there's so many layers, I don't even know.

Simone 36:53
There are. Because I think that a lot of times, what I find that people struggle with is okay, if I acknowledge that, maybe my parents did the best they could, then that means that my experiences aren't valid. And that's not true. And both can be true that your parents did the best they could with the information and the resources that they had at the time and also, you didn't get your needs met. And that caused damage for you.

Andrea 37:18
That's what I always tell people. And I'm like, I do believe that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have and sometimes their best is shity. It’sbshity. And that's where boundaries come into play. That's where, you know, someone's ready for any kind of forgiveness work, whatever that looks like acceptance. And, but I like that you said that, you know, both can be true that they that they did their best, and you can have compassion for them. And it was still painful and created impact.

Okay, before I actually my final question, I want to ask you, and this is just like, my own curiosity. Is there… Do you primarily do you work with all kinds of different people? Or do you primarily work with like, millennial women or what is your client base usually look like before I asked this question.

Simone 38:04
Yeah, I would say my client base typically is women, between the ages of I would say like 21 to 40.

Andrea 38:15
Okay, yeah. Do you find that they come with a typical, either list of agenda that they want to work in on or one particular thing? What is the most common thing that you work on? And second part of that question, do they do they sometimes come with like a surface level topic and then you got to get into it and realize, like, well, it's actually this thing? If you catch my drift?

Simone 38:38
Yeah, I find that… So breaking it up into a few pieces. So I find that typically, the younger the client, the more aware of that they are the more deeper issues. So typically, the younger clients come in with straight up I have childhood trauma. I find that the older the client, they're usually coming in with working on wanting to work on confidence or boundaries or family issues, or maybe the anxiety or depression and then typically under that, yes, problem.

Andrea 39:13
Yep. I say the same thing. And I had the same experience of like, oh, it's, it's this and this and this, you know, it's like these kind of like higher level topics and then at the end of the day, it's like, oh, you mean everything is related to my daddy issues? Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. So when I've been asking all of the therapist, counselors and experts in this particular theme, the same question and I would love to hear it in your words and what your opinion is. How do you think that that we as people as human beings heal ourselves?

Simone 39:51
I think a lot of it starts with that self-awareness piece, because I think that you can't heal something that you don't know is not working for you. So self-awareness around what do I need, what maybe coping strategies am I using aren't working for me, what is maybe harmful for me whether that is coping strategies, whether that's relationships, whether that's experiences, and doing some of that work. So whether that be with a therapist or just reflecting on your own terms of journaling, or all that kind of stuff. I think that's really the starting point is, what do you need? Because once you find out what you need, that's when you can start to make steps to actively meet those needs or find who it is that need to help meet those needs.

Andrea 40:38
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And do you feel like okay, I have a follow up question. I lied. That wasn't the last question. Yeah. Do you feel like people should always be in therapy? Like, I've come to the conclusion, it's a lifelong journey. But do you think you know, people should take breaks? Or what do you what do you typically prescribe, if you will.

Simone 40:57
Yeah. I also think that therapy is kind of a lifelong journey. But I am a massive fan of therapy breaks. I think that it's important to live in the now. And so I think that when you're in therapy, typically, when people are in therapy, it's on a semi consistent basis, whether that's, you know, bi weekly, or every three weeks every month. But I think that it's important to take breaks sometimes to integrate the stuff that you've learned, and be able to have some of that self-reliance. And then you can always go back if you need to, if you want to. But I think it's really important to live in the now and not always be self-improving.

Andrea 41:32
Yeah, I agree with that. Did you hear that everybody? Take a break once in a while. Okay, so I know that you take clients but only in the province of Alberta, Canada, correct?

Simone 41:44
Yes, I am registered in Alberta and Ontario.

Andrea 41:47
Oh, and Ontario, okay. But you also do consulting for businesses. So tell people where you want them to go to find you. We will have your website, TheCollectiveCorner.ca in the show notes, but where else you want people to go to they can learn more about you.

Simone 42:02
So my Instagram handles on Instagram and Tiktok are @TheCognitiveCorner, and then my website. So those two places.

Andrea 42:09
Okay, awesome. I think everyone should definitely follow Simone on the social media handles, whether you're on Instagram, TikTok, or both. And if you are in Ontario in Calgary, check it out. I thank you so much for being here. I absolutely love the sound of your voice too. So soothing and calm. And I often need someone to like, bring me down a little bit because I can kind of like I need someone to grab me by the ankles. So I appreciate you so much. And listeners, I appreciate you for listening and spending time with me and my guests over here. And remember, it's our life's journey to make ourselves better humans and our life's responsibility to make the world a better place. Bye for now.

Hi, there, swinging back by to say one more thing. You know, I'm always giving advice over here on the show and on social media. And a couple of those things is that I'm always telling you to ask for what you want, be clear about it, and also ask for help. So I am taking a dose of my own medicine and I'm going to do that right now. It would be the absolute best and mean the world to me if you reviewed and subscribed to this show Make Some Noise Podcast on whatever podcast platform of your choice. And even more importantly, it would matter so much if you shared this show. Sharing the show is one of the few ways the podcast can grow. And that also gives more women an opportunity to make some noise in their lives. You can do that by taking a screenshot when you're listening on your phone and sharing it in your Instagram or Facebook stories. If you're on Instagram you can tag me @HeyAndreaOwen and I try my best to always re share those and give you a quick thank you DM and also you can tell your friends and family about it. Tell them what you learned. Tell them a really awesome guest that you found on the show that you started following whatever it is I appreciate so much you sharing about this show.

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