We are deep in our theme of relationships and I didn’t want to forget about those of you who are single or dating. Lily Womble joins me to talk about relationship with self, your love life, and practicing self-compassion whether you are a single or partnered individual. She also shares how to tap into your own freedom and agency. 

Lily Womble is the founder of Date Brazen where she’s helped hundreds of women around the world build badass dating lives that lead to extraordinary relationships through unconventional coaching and transformative community.

We talk about:

  • How women play small in their dating and love lives (7:47)
  • What high-achieving women struggle with the most in their love lives (16:19)
  • Why Lily believes dating can be an act of self-care (27:28)
  • Advice for people who regularly deal with dating anxiety (33:22)
  • How self-compassion impacts your love life (33:37)

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Lily’s website
Lily on Instagram
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Episode 442: How We Heal Ourselves: Emotional Regulation and Boundaries with Eliah Prichard


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Lily was a top matchmaker at the largest firm in the U.S. After matching hundreds, she realized that with coaching, women could become their OWN expert matchmaker to find better dates for themselves than anyone else ever could. Now as the founder of Date Brazen, she’s helped hundreds of women around the world build badass dating lives that lead to extraordinary relationships through unconventional coaching and transformative community.

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Andrea  00:00
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Lily  01:41
It's all about coming home to who were you at your essence and what how do you want to feel in the right relationship and how can you shift the meaning that you're making of your previous romantic history?

Andrea  01:56
You're listening to Make Some Noise Podcast episode number 453 with guest Lily Womble. 

Welcome to Make Some Noise Podcast your guide for strategies, tools and insights to empower yourself. I'm your host, Andrea Owen, global speaker, entrepreneur, life coach since 2007, and author of three books that have been translated into 18 languages and are available in 22 countries. Each week, I'll bring you a guest or a lesson that will help you maximize unshakable confidence, master resilience and make some noise in your life. Are you ready? Let's go. 

Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of the podcast. I'm so glad that you're here. As we are deep in our theme of relationships, I didn't want to forget about all of those of you listening who are single and dating, and maybe you're single and not dating. I'm thinking of you too. And this episode with Lily is not just for those people who are single and dating. It's for everyone. She talks about your relationship with yourself, she talks about our love lives, and I think that you're going to enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed interviewing Lily.  

Before we begin, there are a handful of spots left for the Daring Way retreat in September in Asheville, North Carolina and the early bird price is going up on June 10 of this year 2022. So if you are kind of on the fence, you're like, I'll sign up later, you want to get your cute but over there to the info page. And check it out AndreaOwen.com/retreat and all of the information is there. If you need to jump on the phone with me, check out the FAQs. You can do that there. And let's get into it. 

Let me tell you a little bit about Lily. Lily was a top matchmaker at the largest firm in the US. After matching hundreds she realized that with coaching, women could become their own expert matchmaker to find better dates for themselves than anyone else ever could. Now is the founder of Date Brazen, she's helped hundreds of women around the world build badass dating lives that lead to extraordinary relationships through unconventional coaching and transformative community. So without further ado, here is Lily. 

Lily, thank you so much for being here. I'm excited to have you.

Lily  04:26
Andrea I'm pumped. Let's do it.

Andrea  04:28
Oh, yes, let's do it. Well, you and I were chatting before the show and I was I was sort of asking you, you know, do you only talk about dating because the audience of this show is a mix of people who are in who are partnered in relationships, whether they're married or not and then and then some single people too. Mostly women, the vast majority of the people listening right now are women. And I don't want people who are partnered to turn it off. So what do you want to say in regard to that being a dating ex? 

Lily  04:57
Yep, first of all, Hey, y'all. Hello everyone listening. I know that dating is a microcosm of every fucking thing. It's a microcosm of every hope, joy, dream, fear, insecurity desire that we have as humans. And so when I work with a woman on her dating life, who is single, what we're doing is really helping her tap into her own freedom, and her own agency. And so we'll be talking about dating through that lens today. It's not just about like, this is not about how to hook anybody, like…

Andrea  05:51
How to do your dating profile. 

Lily  05:53
And then And then, because that shit doesn't… I can curse, right? That feels though…that stuff does that shit doesn't matter. What matters is how you show up for yourself and your desires and I have people, a couple of people who asked to do my program, and I'm like, it's not for you and I'm so glad that you resonate. So everybody, I hope that you… My intention is that you get exactly what you need today.

Andrea  05:58
Fantastic. Thank you for that little caveat, if you will, and I hope everybody stays because there's something to be learned for everyone, myself included. Okay, so how do you see… Let's start here. How do you see women… I love this topic because, you know, I wrote a book called Make Some Noise and about kind of taking up space. But how do you see women playing small in their dating and in their love lives and why are they doing that? 

Lily  06:26
Well, first of all, we live in a really patriarchal world in which women were particularly socialized to be safe by being small, right? So we can't ignore the context. Literally, like women were economic property not too long ago, and still are in a lot of places in this world. And so when we think about why is dating so hard for me, why do I have troubles taking up space asking for my needs to be met, let's look at the greater context and have some self-compassion here because dating is this microcosm of everything, it is not in a silo. 

 And I see so many women believing that they are a failure somehow, because they're not romantically partnered, or believing that they're somehow less than and I think that has a lot to do with the messages that we were told by our mothers, by our coworkers, by our cousins, by our my aunt. I grew up in the deep south in Alabama. Actually, my cousin who was like close to my age, before my first date ever when I was 16, she called me and she's like, ‘Lily, I just want to let you know, you need to be jovial. Boys like girls who are jovial and, you need to laugh more, and talk less I know you're a little bit too much. So don't…’ right? So these messages really impact our nervous system.

Andrea  07:42
And she thought she was giving you like the best advice. 

Lily  07:47
She was like, girl, you're going to be married by 21 with this advice, do you know what I'm saying? And that's the goal in a lot of places. Jovial Lily, which I am both and of jovial, complex, anxious all of the things at once and I love that now. But so why women play small the socialization piece. 

Then I think we have a crisis of permission that women in so many other areas of their life, have been giving themselves massive permission in work, ask for that raise. In your friendships, ask for the boundaries, ask for your needs to be met. In your relationship with your parents, maybe like yes, ask your mom to fulfill… You know what I'm saying? There's been a widespread conversation change in how we talk about other aspects of a woman's life. And I don't see that same conversation happening for dating. I see that women are still unsure generally why women who are so fucking powerful in every other aspect of their life, they're still unsure if they can give themselves permission to want what they want, and believe that it's possible in their love lives. And so I think that's why people are playing small because most people I work with, in the beginning, literally do not feel safe asking for more, because they have been trained to believe that asking for more means isolation and rejection.

Andrea  09:06
Yeah, I mean, it's embedded for many of us, I would venture to say most of us in our nervous system, like into our DNA. I remember when, you touched on something that resonated so much with me about having our value come from being partners, and when we're not, we feel like something's wrong with us. I remember I have a friend, this was several years ago, she was I believe, in her mid or late 30s and was single and said, I just keep asking myself the question, why hasn't anyone picked met yet. And I felt that as a woman, you know, that is that is what I mean, maybe not they don't say it in so many words. But there's a reason that that is now kind of a slang term in our vernacular, like a quote unquote pick me girls like fuck you culture.

Lily  10:00
Oh, I mean, like, I'm embarrassed to say I'm addicted to The Bachelor season right now and how pervasive it is and that like, bullshit TV show of like, choose me choose me choose me pick me pick me pick me. And I think that that's so… I feel that with your friend, I don't know that she's there right now anymore, but that's so fucking real. 

Andrea  10:22
Well, and I just want to add one more thing, what I resonated with was, I felt like a failure because I had been dumped twice by guys who didn't even deserve me. And like I knew it in the relationship and I'm like, why can I even keep like this derelict guy? What's wrong with me that I can't keep a relationship like and then I blamed myself like, it's either like, I am too much, I'm asking for too much, my standards are too high, I must be just too hard to be in a relationship with, I'm too bossy, I'm too big my personality and I just felt, I kind of came to the conclusion where I'm like, I'm just bad at relationships. Do you hear that from your clients?

Lily  11:08
Well, I heard that out of my own mouth when I was a professional matchmaker, like top three out of 160 at this national firm, and I was in a very toxic romantic relationship at the same time. So like, I was, as I was giving advice, like, you deserve more, let's get you out on some amazing date, I know how to do that. I was also accepting so little in my own romantic life and I think it was because of the deeper the deeper story that was interwoven through my identity, that I'm too much I need to tone it down. And I was told that at age 12, by my mom, you know, who I love, and have a close relationship with now, but she said, when I was 12, you're gonna have a hard time finding a husband because your personality is so strong. 

Andrea  11:54
Holy moly. 

Lily  11:56
And so when that relationship started to crumble, he was initiating it again, echoing your experience of like, why the fuck is this relationship ending? I want to be the one to end this relationship. Why is he ending it? So I came to this point where it was a personal wreck and professional, it's when I started creating Date Brazen, but a personal professional reckoning where I was like, I'm no longer willing to be out of alignment with my worthiness, that this is actually becoming intolerable for me to be pushing myself into such a small box. And so I would rather exist and expand into my full like, badass, weird, nerdy, intense self, then be limited by this too much narrative anymore. And that's when I started to discover the tenants that I now teach in the Brazen Breakthrough my program that it's all about coming home to what is who are you at your essence and what do you how do you want to feel in the right relationship and how can you shift the meaning that you're making of your previous romantic history.

Andrea  13:06
Yeah, so it sounds like a little bit some deeper work than just like, you know, guidelines about which picture you should use for your dating profile? I have a question, like, kind of a side question that I feel is important to address. Do you find that, you know, straw woman that that we've been talking about is mostly that way in heterosexual relationships or do you find the same kind of characteristics in either, you know, lesbian women who are exclusively only dating women or bi women with their dating women? Like, what does that look like?

Lily  13:34
I love this question. I think that our issue like women's issues with their own internal narrative about am I worthy, am I enough, do I get to want what I want extends whatever your sexual orientation, whoever you date. I think that there are different questions that women who date women ask themselves about, like, we're just the way women are socialized those relationships are different. If you're a woman with a woman, we're not dealing necessarily so much with why haven't been done their emotional work, why haven't men gone to therapy, I can't find that emotional… I'm doing so much emotional labor. Maybe a little bit less of that if you're a woman dating a woman, and the conversation is the same about how do I rewrite my relationship to my desires? How do I allow myself to want what I want and ask for it and create emotional safety in my own body as I asked for it.

Andrea  14:34
That's hard. I've had actually, I'm going to I'm going to drop some links in the, in the show notes for people I've had Elijah Prichard on talking about emotional regulation and a couple of other experts and therapists on talking about that emotional regulation, which I think is so important, especially when we feel triggered with our own family of origin stuff, whether it's, you know, social programming and conditioning, thing that we've received that we might not even know at face value, probably if they listen to this podcast regularly they know. But that emotional regulation and having to have hard conversations and ask for what we want, whether it's just, you know, with all of our clothes on at the dinner table or with our clothes off in the bedroom. It's important.

Lily  15:18
Yep, it absolutely is important. And it's also important to break up with the idea of being perfect at it. It's like, yeah, like I work with a lot of women who are high achieving, who struggle with anxiety, I struggle with depression and anxiety, and the question that I hear so often is, will it be possible to find somebody who can deal with my anxiety who is going to be cool with when I have a panic attack? Are they going to know how to support me through that? And I think it's important too, because a lot of all of us are, in my program, probably a recovering perfectionist, break up with this idea that there's a perfect way to emotionally regulate and that you have to show up perfectly emotionally regulated to find love. That's a fallacy. It's all about like, how do you keep yourself safe, and also believe that you deserve care, that your care deserves to be prioritized in the right relationship and that can be a qualifier disqualifier for you?

Andrea  16:19
I have so many questions, but I'm going to stick to the script. I'm gonna have to have you on probably twice because I have some more questions. Well, you mentioned that you work with a lot of high achieving women, as do is as best I would say, like all the women listening to this show, what is the biggest struggle that you see with them as they face the challenges in their love lives?

Lily  16:39
Well, there's the asking for what you want piece, there's the identifying what you want piece. So we go from most women, most people in general, when you ask what they want, they're like, here's my checklist. Here's my ABCD list. What we need to do first and foremost is get to the essence of what you desire. I call them essence-based…

Andrea  16:56
When you say like, when you ask them what they want, let me let me clarify this, are you talking about when you ask them what they want in a relationship and or a partner? 

Lily  17:03

Andrea  17:04
Okay, gotcha. Okay. Just want to make sure I was clear. 

Lily  17:06
Yeah, for sure. And everybody says the same version of like, intelligent, kind, funny, you know, warm, compassionate. I want to get beneath the surface of all of those things. What is the essence of what you desire? What does it feel like first and foremost, like not a rigid picture, a snapshot, but an impressionist painting. I think so many women are afraid that what they want doesn't exist, that they're protecting themselves from deeper vulnerability and risk by not admitting to themselves how they want to feel in the right relationship. Not admitting to themselves like the depth of their desire. So first, we need to… What are you thinking? 

Andrea  17:45
Yeah, well, I was just gonna say, like, I love example, and said, you know, like, give us an example of like, of what that actually means, like, yeah, paint it.

Lily  17:52
So I was a very fun example is I worked with a client who was like, every man that I've ever liked, has a man bun. And that's something that I like to see in a man. I like to see a man bun. And I was like, okay, okay. It's a physical preference. Okay, cool. That's a checklist item. What do you assume that means about a person? So when you when somebody says, I want somebody who has a graduate degree also, because, you know, because I want somebody who matches me. Who can match my ambition. And how do you hope that preference feels in person? Well, I hope that that person also has a voracious love of learning, I hope that that person also is choosing to level up in their life every day, I hope that that person is also right… There's so many things that come along with an assumption of a graduate degree that we need to get to the bottom of, or there's so many things that come with the assumption of a man bun that we need to get to the bottom of. And usually we break it out into like, so much more beautiful, deeper preferences, like they join me in the learning, they join me in the joy of picking up a book, they join me in wanting to pick up and move to another country. Like it means something different to every single person and we gotta get to the bottom of it. 

Andrea  19:12
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 What I've been seeing a lot especially like on social media, when I when I follow a handful of of dating profiles, it seems like the consensus is, and I could be totally wrong, the consensus is there's not a lot of, of quality men out there. And this is no, I'm not bashing men, I think that our culture has done them so dirty. And like they also grow up in a culture that tells them that emotional intelligence is stupid, it's weak, not valuable, etc. Right? The culture set them up to be thumbs down. So what do you think about… Because if I were single right now, I'd be fine with someone who was just willing to learn all those things. Do you make fun of therapy? Red flag. Are you open to therapy and like, open to reading books on emotional intelligence and having like, critical conversations about it and, and being curious and non judgmental, and things like that. I feel like that’s fair.

Lily  23:04
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so I have so many hot takes on this subject. Because women at some point in our work together, say something like, it's not fair that I am showing up to do this work on myself and in my dating life, and preparing for the right relationship, the emotional labor piece, and men aren't doing the same. I don't see men doing the same work. Right? I my response to them is okay. That is an interpretation of the world that we live in, you know, how is it serving you? How is it serving you to believe if you want, you're gonna give yourself permission to want what you want. You want the right relationship, if you're a woman who date's a man. Then choosing to believe that there are no good single men out there, or there are no men or very, very few men who do emotional work on themselves, choosing that interpretation of our world right now is not serving you. It's only keeping you in a place where you're ready to reject and ready to say no. And I want to encourage everybody to practice self-compassion around this. Like if this is how you feel feel your feelings. There's no wrong way to feel about men, or were your relationship status, right? Feel those feelings, both and…

If I were to literally… and I live in Brooklyn, if I were to create a spreadsheet with every man who goes to therapy, who dates women who is single, who either just got divorced, or they've been single for a while or whatever the case, those people would not fit in one apartment building. Those people would not fit in a warehouse. Those people like… There are there are different ways to think about this that are more creative, that allow more space for possibility. And I work with women all the time who ask deeper questions as we like help them to do before they meet somebody and there are so many men, I can't tell you how many men there are who go to therapy, who do emotional work, who are ready to meet the right partner, they exist.

Andrea  25:01
They do exist, but they're probably not on like, what is that dating app that's like just for hookups?

Lily  25:08
Tinder is one. But also I know people who've met partners through every single dating app, even if it was like a quote hookup app. So that's also a story, right? It's all about…

Andrea  25:20Yeah. And I am definitely not one to speak on that. I met my husband right before they really took off. I did meet some really interesting guys. The guy who that I dated who faked cancer to cover up his drug addiction. I met him on Match. 

Lily 25:34
Wow, Andrea, I want to talk about that more.

Andrea  25:39
But I'm also on the side of TikTok of what like straight women have always identified as straight, who are now just like so over it, whether they're divorced, or they've just been single, they're like, I am attracted to women. I am identifying as bisexual like…

Lily  25:58
Oh, my God, TikTok has helped so many women open themselves up to bisexuality to dating women who previously only dated men. I think if I wasn't, I am so grateful. I found Chris my partner who, in a very weird difficult time. And I was open to dating women than too. So in this in seeing this, this trend, trend, it's not a trend, it's women arriving to themselves and arriving to more possibilities. I fucking love it.

Andrea  26:28
I see it a lot with women my age and like elder millennials, who grew up who were young, in a culture where homosexuality was not widely accepted as it is now. So they think there's so many women who, who would just, were never had their eyes open, and then they're now you know, 45, late 40s, even early 40s like, wait, aren't all women attracted to other women?

Lily  26:53
Well, the research on female shifting sexuality is really compelling. But like our sexuality, our Kinsey scale, actually, like shifts and ebbs and flows at different moments of our journey. And that that's normal and natural. And I love when I work with women, and they discover that they want to start dating women. I love when I work with women, and they discover like, I'm open to dating folks who are non-binary and trans. I love working with like… Yes, I think that it's such a cool arrival to permission. Here we are at permission again, right?

Andrea  27:28
Again, yes, we've come full circle. Okay, so we may have already addressed this, but I wanted to ask you about… Because you say that dating can be an act of self-care. So can you elaborate on that a little bit.

Lily  27:40
I do not mean self-soothing. Self-soothing, like this good distinction from conversation self between self-soothing and self-care. Self-soothing, is, I need to take a bubble bath. I need to, you know, like give myself a self-compassionate hug or go on a walk or go on a run, like something that will allow your body to move from fight or flight to more regulated, more grounded, right? Self-care, I think of self-care as caring for your present and future self. So when you think about your desires, say like in a non-dating context, my desire is to live in Paris for a year. How can I practice self-care and take care of future her? Well, I need to get a raise at my job, I need to do a lot of therapy to work through mental blocks that I have around this desire, right? Same with your love life. If you desire the right partnership, then dating with certain tools that I can get into, can be an act of future self-care. Now dating is also fundamentally difficult and rough on your nervous system because it requires a massive amount of vulnerability and risk…the Brené Brown definition showing up and you literally cannot control the outcome. And so I see so many people feeling like dating is a soul suck because they're neglecting to see how their nervous system is being impacted by their efforts. Dating apps literally were created like slot machine. They were created to addict the user. They there are studies that showed that dating apps trick the pleasure center of our brain like McDonald's fries with a little bit of sugar in them, to want more of those cheaper words right? when I say McDonald's fries everybody knows what I'm talking about that like I feel so empty but I need more.

Andrea  29:26
I know well I just real quick about McDonald's fries. Sidenote. So I recently was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and I've gone gluten free. McDonald's is one of the only fast food that have gluten in their fries. It’s some kind of like meat seasoning that they put in their fries and their hashbrowns.

Lily  29:44
I am horrified for you.

Andrea  29:49
I know. I was so disappointed because there's nothing like McDonald's fries.

Lily  29:55
Not the same but dip them in a frosty and hopefully you'll feel right as for rain. 

 So in terms of dating apps, I think that similarly, like people want something to do, they're addicted to their phones, looking at pretty faces makes our brain light up, makes it happy. And it also I see so many women not understanding how triggering it is to be dating to be on a dating app. So dating is an act of self-care means backing up, identifying your deeper desires, identifying your essence-based preferences, what does it feel like to be in the right relationship? Learning how to practice self-compassion as you are triggered, learning how to set boundaries, how to courageously communicate what you want. All of those pieces are how dating can be an act of future self-care.

Andrea  30:41
I have never thought about that before. And that is my relationship privilege of never having to think about that challenge of I imagine it's like a few different angles that triggers are coming at you. First, the comparisonitis that we might have with other women seeing their profiles on there. And then seeing like, I'm talking about, you know, the you know, myself as a heterosexual woman, seeing men on there that might look like a former person that you dated a partner that you're like, or you see them, you see that person's actual profile. Oy vey. I was at lunch the other day with a colleague was actually somebody that was on this on this podcast and we went to this kind of nicer restaurant, and we sit down and I look over her shoulder and there's a guy that was a spitting image of the guy that faked cancer to cover up his drug addiction, and that we had just sat down and just met and I was like, and I was so distracted, like my words caught in my throat. And I just sat and I'm like, I'm so sorry, there's a man behind you that looks who was a dead ringer for someone I dated and it was a traumatic relationship. But she turns around to look at him. She knew him.

Lily  31:57
Oh, my God.  

Andrea  32:01
And then he saw and like, waved at her and I was like, oh my God. But then actually, when he waved, I realized he doesn't actually… But all that to say, even that event was just, it was I had a physiological reaction. So I can understand scrolling through faces, that could be potential partners… 

Lily  32:20
Or even seeing potentially actually seeing your ex, you're on a dating app, especially if you live in a smaller place. And so I think that it's really important to, when that happens, when you are triggered, activated, step back, put the app down. I encourage my clients to only use a dating app 20 minutes a day maximum. And to then set a boundary and put down the resource because, and people when I say that people who don't end up working with me are like, but I need to be on there because this is the only way, this is like, I'm not meeting any people my social circle a small women in my life don't know any single men if they're women, dating men. And my response is always a dating app is not the answer, it is a tool. And when you're in your agency, you can more easily use that tool to your advantage because it is a good tool to meet somebody outside of your social circle and to get to know your dating personality. When you know your triggers, you can better respond to yourself with compassion. 

Andrea  33:22
Yes. Okay. So we've talked about self-care and self-soothing and emotional regulation. Again, we may have touched on this before, but what advice do you have for people who regularly deal with dating anxiety?

Lily  33:37
Yeah, so I think everybody should be in therapy. I love therapy. I only work with people who go to therapy. So dating anxiety. I think self-compassion is the resource. I think Kristin Neff’s work and her meditations and the idea of how can you be with yourself here and allow yourself to have human emotions and human thoughts? Right, instead of the perfectionistic fantasy that I shouldn't be having an anxiety attack right now. I shouldn't be dealing with this anymore. I shouldn't be more regulated. Like, how can you give yourself radical permission to be in this moment, to allow yourself to feel these feelings, there are a lot of tools like I love the work of, you know, five beats and 10 beats out breath with imagining your emotion as a literal thing in your body. Where is it? How big is it? What color is it? Tell me more about it? What shape is it taking? Is it hard? Is it soft? Like literally being with the feeling of anxiety, and noticing what is happening and like what that feeling is here to teach you and then after noticing feeling practicing self-compassion, what is the need that you need met? Are you feeling isolated? Are you tripping out on tragedy because something good is happening in your dating life and you're afraid that something shitty is down the down the bend, right? Like, what boundary do you need to set to get a need met? What do you need right now to get a need met? How can you meet your own needs, that's the work.

Andrea  35:13
Oh god, I'm just I had a little flashback of when I was dating and the lengths I went to to abandon myself in order to please the men I was with, who I didn't even like very much. And I just I have so much compassion for that younger version of me, who just was, quite honestly, desperately seeking validation. And the way that I knew to get it was through, you know, being a certain way and through sex. And, you know, I said yes, many times when I didn't really want to.

Lily  35:57
I think your… I am like, receiving sense memories as well of like, feeling so disconnected from this person that I loved, and then choosing to, like, do something sexual to barter for, right that connection or… And I think that this up to right, and the trauma that we all go through as people as women in the world I mean, I hold so much fucking privilege is that as a white woman in this world, like, we're not even talking about the trauma and experiences that women of color, and women who have marginalized identities go through like dating is hard. And there's nobody that taught me how to actually tactically believe in my worthiness and set boundaries to receive what I wanted. There was nobody to teach me… I mean, like, that's, that was the learning. And so that's why I'm so on fire for this work for women's dating lives, because it really isn't just about dating that we do talk about wellness through a dating lens. It's about how do you create your own freedom emotionally, physically. How do you attract people in your life who are down for your freedom.

Andrea  37:10
This just question just popped into my head. If you could wave a magic wand and make the dating, I don't know what you call it, the dating scene, the dating culture, if you could change things, and you can have a list, doesn’t have to be just one thing, what would you change?

Lily  37:26
Everybody would be in therapy with a qualified professional, full time. And everybody would have a pod of humans that they were doing dating a side by side with. Like dating is so fundamentally isolating, and for women who are single together and dating, the conversation generally can be very negative. And so that is difficult to break out, to create a positive new offshoot in your love life is difficult when you're stuck in a negative conversation about dating with your friends. So everybody would be with a qualified therapist, everybody would have a community of support in their love life so they never felt isolated. So they knew they belonged. They normalized belonging in their nervous system. I think that's why so many people settle is they don't know what true belonging feels like. 

 And then dating apps would be more highly regulated, to… I mean, like dating apps are an industry it's a three point something billion dollar industry dating is. And so when we're talking about a capitalistic culture, the marketing messages are super compelling, right? Like hinges that have to be, you know, designed to be deleted oo, cool, ya know, they're designed to fucking make money, and to please their shareholders, and Match Group owns every fucking dating app under the sun, except for Bumble and match group was under investigation by the FDA. Like it's just so the dating industry would be more heavily regulated to be like… Brené Brown would be, you know, leading groups of industry professionals, mandatory workshops. The CEOs, the C-suite has to be there, right? You would be leading right, like dating would be more integrated into this matters to people's well-being it matters to our public health, we need to pay more attention, and we need to pay more care.

Andrea  39:22
Oh, wow. And I bet there's, you know, with all of that said, there's probably offshoots as it comes to different generations, because I'm sure it's different for you know, women in their 20s than it is for women in their 50s and 60s. And it's different for people with physical disabilities. It's different for women of color, indigenous women, marginalized groups based on their sexuality and gender identity. It's like, it's all important, and it seems like it would be a little bit complicated, but at the same time, not.

Lily  39:54
Well, it's because people don't think that it matters. I think that's why… I think that somehow there's this idea that dating is frivolous or that like people who are single and who are complaining about it, like, they just haven't figured it out yet, or what's wrong with you that you haven't caught someone.

Andrea  40:09
Trying too hard.

Lily  40:12
Right. And then, and then let's, uh, we haven't touched on… And there's so many things to say. So why all I will do is touch. But this idea of like women who want to have kids, and who want to find a partner to have kids with, or they're gonna have kids solo, and like, the feelings coming along with that, and how to, like own what you want in that realm, and how difficult it is for women to have children solo, if that's what they want. And I think that's another reason why women settle a lot of the time because they want to bear children and that's, that doesn't feel possible. So there's, this is a very complicated space and like you said, it doesn't have to be complicated to be well here.

Andrea  40:49
That's what I was referring to like, just to clarify, it's, like, complicated and that there's a lot of different sort of, like ancillary topics of it, but simple, in a sense of like, let's just be better to people who dating, who are single looking for less. 

Lily  41:03
Absolutely. 100%.

Andrea  41:07
Okay, I have kind of a funny story to tell you. I was gonna tell it earlier, but we you were just on such a good roll. My best friend, Amy Smith, the podcast probably knows who she is. And she has her own podcast. And we have made up this joke, what we're like kind of half serious that eventually we are going to start our own commune. Okay, and it's going to be women of all it doesn't matter your what gender you are, what your sexual identity, you can come to this commune and if, gay men are invited by sexual manner, but heterosexual men, it is so much different… Heterosexual men can come as long as they have to, like meet a criteria and it's like, do you go to therapy, are you working on…how's your emotional EQ, and also do you have a skill?

Lily  42:02
What are you bringing to the table? Yeah, right. Exactly. Written application and in person. 

Andrea  42:13
We need people IT, you know, carpentry and, then we're also going to have… Do you remember, like in Elementary in high school, or middle school, like maybe in high school, like, where I went to school there was like this kind of door on the where like we did PE where it was like the door was cut in half and like the top part opened and that's where you checked out like the balls and like the sports equipment, we're gonna have one of those, but it's for sex toys. Check out anything you want. If you want to strap on if you want different kinds of vibrators, and they're always like, there's high regulation for…

Lily  42:51
Highly sanitized Yeah, I was that was my next question. But I trust you, you know? Like we just met, but I do trust that you would sanitize the anal beads. 

Andrea  43:02
Like all, there's just like, you know, what is the OSHA will be involved.

Lily  43:08
Right. Yep. A lot of oversight here.

Andrea  43:11
So everyone is sexually satisfied. We haven't worked out all the details with like, consent and things like that and like the comings and goings, but it's all self-sufficient. You know, we'll like grow our own food. We’re working on the details but…

Lily  43:25
You know, I do follow people on tick tock and the more I say it out loud, the more my phone is going to hear me of people who like moved to France and buy a giant like Chateau with out buildings, and they moved there with four families and they're doing it you know, what I'm saying? Like people are creating their own space. And I think that that speaks to like, create your own environment in which you can thrive and sometimes that's not available because of the world that we live in and how we're set up but I love this idea and I think it speaks to the deeper longing that most people have for belonging and for sexual satisfied community and understanding and like-minded people and support you know, and that's why I only do group coaching. That's why I only, like it truly changes lives being in community and belonging with each other.

Andrea  44:11
And you know, it is it is in jest but I think you nailed it of what you were speaking to. It's like we want to be around like-minded people and no matter what age they are, or you know what, it doesn't matter but also just getting away from what's happening here. And it just… I think the pandemic brought so many things to light and the stresses that people already had became impacted and got even bigger and people are starting to think outside the box. I always have a lot of ideas but

Lily  44:48
I will check in next year to see how much progress y'all have made on this idea. Get it land.

Andrea  44:55
Yeah. Instead of like relying on like, you know, grocery store Isn't the chain supply and it's like ah. Anyway, anyway, lots of lots of stressors out there but I don't want dating to be a stress for people. So tell everyone how like where do you want people to go? Do you have like a freebie on your site that would be helpful for people?

Lily  45:14
Yeah, I do. So it is a guide to make dating feel like self-care. We're going to cover bragging, we didn't even talk about it. It's in this workbook that I created this totally free how to brag to create a dating life that feels like self-care, how to practice self-compassion and how to start to set one boundary that will support your dating as self-care journey. So that freebie I'm going to give it to you to put in the shownotes you can find it at DateBrazen.com as well front and center. Also, I have the Date Brazen Podcast which I release a new episode every week we just turned 100 episodes recently. Thank you so much. And I looked at your episode count I'm like, oh my god, she is doing the Lord's work.

Andrea  45:52
I've been doing it for like 137 years like don’t…

Lily  45:55
I mean are so served by you showing up and I just admire you so much just for that alone and so many other things. But so my podcast Date Brazen Podcast DateBrazen.com is where you get that freebie dating as an act of self-care guide. And Instagram is where I love hanging out @DateBrazen

Andrea  46:11
Add Date Brazen everybody go ahead and get grab that freebie. Of course the links are going to be in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening. You know how, how valuable I understand that your time is. And thank you so much for being here, Lily. It's been so fun. 

Lily  46:21
Thank you, Andrea. 

Andrea  46:23
And remember everyone, it's our life's journey to make ourselves better humans and our life's responsibility to make the world a better place. Bye for now. 

Hey, everyone, thanks again for listening to the show. And just a quick reminder that if your company needs a speaker or a trainer, I might be the right person for you. I speak and do keynotes on competence and resilience for mixed audiences as well as do trainings on the Daring Way which is the methodology based on the research of Dr. Brené Brown. So if you think it might be a good fit, hit me up at support@AndreaOwen.com or head over to my speaking page AndreaOwen.com/speaking.