This week I am talking with author and business coach Jadah Sellner about detoxing from hustle culture, building and creating friendships, and reducing stress in the form of self-care.
Jadah is a bestselling author, business coach, international keynote speaker, TEDx presenter, poet, and host of the Lead with Love® podcast. She's also the author of SHE BUILDS: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life.
Book Giveaway 📖 I am also doing a book giveaway! I am giving away one copy of Jadah’s latest book, She Builds! Head over to my Instagram account (@heyandreaown) to find the post about this episode and to join the giveaway conversation.
Other topics in this episode include:
- What prompted Jadah to write about hustle culture and she shares her thoughts on detoxing from it (3:38)
- Your support squad: how to build consistency around maintaining friends and friendships (11:43)
- Tools and strategies to help you feel less stressed or exhausted. Plus, rethinking the way we view self-care (39:23)
- 10-seconds of bravery: what is that one uncomfortable thing you need to do to get you closer to the thing you want? (48:12)
You know how I love a good personal development book, right? I’ve compiled a list of book recommendations, as mentioned in past episodes. Check out these amazing book recommendations here. Happy reading!
Find a complete list of our sponsors and their offerings visit andreaowen.com/sponsors. Thank you for your support!
Jadah Sellner is a bestselling author, business coach, international keynote speaker, TEDx presenter, poet, and host of the Lead with Love® podcast. She's the author of SHE BUILDS: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life. She’s also the co-author of the best-selling book Simple Green Smoothies where over one million people have embraced this simple and healthy habit.
As the founder of Jadah Sellner Media, Inc. and She Builds Collective, Jadah helps women build their businesses and their lives in a way that works for them—–with love. She has been featured in Forbes, O, The Oprah Magazine, and The Wall Street Journal. Learn more at jadahsellner.com or follow her on social media at @jadahsellner
When Jadah's not speaking on stage, you can catch her dancing to Beyoncé in her living room or sipping on a Chai tea latte by a cozy fireplace. She lives in the San Francisco bay area with her husband, daughter, and dog Beesly.
Women are tapping out and I'm trying to invite us to build a more sustainable practice that works for the way that we show up in our lives so that we don't tap out of the things that we actually truly want to do and show up for.
You're listening to Make Some Noise Podcast episode number 488 with guest Jadah Sellner.
Welcome to Make Some Noise Podcast, your guide for strategies, tools and insight to empower yourself. I'm your host, Andrea Elwood, global speaker, entrepreneur, life coach since 2007, and author of three books that have been translated into 18 languages and are available in 22 countries. Each week, I'll bring you a guest or a lesson that will help you maximize unshakable confidence, master resilience and make some noise in your life. You ready? Let's go.
Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the podcast. I am so glad that you're here. I am doing a book giveaway. I wanted to get that out of the way right from the beginning before I forget, because sometimes I do these intros, and they're supposed to be a book giveaway and I forget. So it's my guest today, Jadah Sellner, she has a brand new book that just came out. And if you head on over to my Instagram, after he listened to this episode, I‘m @HeyAndreaOwen over there, you will see a post in my regular feed and that's where the book giveaway is going to take place. So we are talking about hustle culture, we're talking about burnout, we're talking about rest, as we dig a little bit more into women's health. And please excuse the clicking noise that's going on over there. That is my eight-month-old German Shepherd puppy. I'm just glad she's actually chewing on things she's supposed to be chewing on, and not my furniture or my leg. But at any rate @HeyAndreaOwen over on Instagram, too. Wishing you luck for a free copy of Jadah’s new book, which is called She Builds. I am really excited to introduce you to her in just a minute here.
And a quick reminder, for those of you that are interested in some guidance and some private coaching, in some what I like to call coaching consulting co conspiring, head on over to AndreaOwen.com/Apply and we can, even just based on your application, help you figure out what would be the best next step for you. If it is coaching with me or if it is coaching with one of my lead coaches or maybe it's not your time yet. The application does not obligate you to sign up for coaching. But if you have taken an interest we do have a couple of spots this fall. AndreaOwen.com/apply.
All right. Let me tell you a little bit about our guests today. Jadah Sellner is a best selling author, business coach, international keynote speaker TEDx presenter, poet and the host of the Lead With Love Podcast. She's the author of She Builds: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life. When Jadah is not speaking on stage, you can catch her dancing to Beyonce in her living room or sipping on a chai tea latte by a cozy fireplace. She lives in San Francisco Bay Area with her Husband, daughter and dog Beasley. So without further ado, here is Jadah.
Jadah, thank you for being on the show. Finally,
I know I feel we you know we've had a rendezvous on The Clubhouse and now we have arrived here and I'm so excited.\
And I'm happy that it's come to this because you have a new book out. And it's always so exciting. And accounting to talk to you about a lot of the things you talk about and it's called She Builds: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life, which before you all stop listening, for those of you that aren't entrepreneurs Jadah knows, we're gonna talk about, you know, just hustle culture in general and what that has to do with the people listening.
So I mean, let's start there, you and I started talking about some pretty juicy stuff, and you interrupted me and you're like, we need to stop. We need to start. Well, let me let me start by asking you like, what prompted you to write specifically about that? I know the whole book isn't about that but I think…isn't it the very first chapter where you talk about hustle culture, so just…yeah, I'm just gonna toss the ball to you and like, tell us what do you think about that?
Yeah, so yeah, chapter one is Detox From Hustle Culture, and really an invitation for us to unravel from really the patriarchy of what we have stepped into in trying to operate in work in the way that men have built and designed it to work for them, but it actually isn't working for women. So hustle culture isn't working for women yet this is how we've been operating and showing up and how we do our work and the productivity of working 80 hour work week while then coming home and trying to tend to yourself to your loved ones like it's too much. And yet, as much as we're carrying as many hats as we're wearing, we're constantly feeling like we're not doing enough, we're not earning enough, and it's this just this constant chase for more. And all we do is move the goalposts further. And so we're constantly just in this rat race of constantly being on a treadmill. And it's what it's causing is overwhelm, stress, anxiety, and, and burnout. And this is what's happening is we're tapping out, women are tapping out. And I'm trying to invite us to build a more sustainable practice that works for the way that we show up in our lives so that we don't tap out of the things that we actually truly want to do and show up for.
I'm curious if, because like from the outside, before I knew you personally, I had seen you from the outside and you were kind of an early adopter in terms of creating a quote unquote, online business and back when so your first book was about green smoothies, wasn't it?
And that was actually one of my hustle moments was actually working on that book, Simple Green Smoothies. It came out in 2015. We got our book deal. So from book deal to pub date was 11 months and author.
Yeah. That’s quick.
And we're also taking pictures and photos and recipe testing. And I remember this one day, when, you know, the manuscript was like, it's going to print at 9am. And so I had been up for over 24 hours, I was still in my yoga pants that was laying on the living room floor and with my laptop in front of me. And I remember watching my husband and my daughter walking out to go to school, and I'm still just like, glued to my computer screen, just like on caffeine, like must finish this. And that…
You had been up all night working on it?
Yes. Like all day, all night, all morning. Yes, exactly. And also being a walking paradox, right of having this health and wellness business, about like being healthy and vital. Here I am glued to my screen, not sleeping for over 24 hours. I'm watching my kid head off to school that morning and that was one of those moments of like, burnout is not an option. Like this can't, this can't be the way that I live or perform. And so now I have learned to ask for more time, instead of like pushing towards those things. It's not a sustainable way to live. And so yeah, that that's just one of the many moments for us to kind of think I'm in for you have you had one of those like, hustle…
So many. Mine look different. I I am not the type of person who can actually keep working. After a certain time, my brain starts to shut down. And I, don't know if it's if it's a certain type of it's because of my ADHD or maybe ADHD helps certain people be able to sustain that. But I just, it just stops working and then I start to get irritable. And then it just all falls apart from there I turn into like, I now understand why toddlers throw tantrums. Like that's how short fuse I get. But for me, it looks like I remember, my husband came home from work one time, I was just sort of my business my kids were super little. I think I hit also I was at the end of my drinking career or was like just getting sober and I fell face first on the couch, like my face in the pillows. And just started crying and was like, I wanted it so bad but my body and my mind were starting to break down. And I was like I can't sustain this, even though I pushed and pushed and pushed. And I've had other moments like that. I've probably had maybe four throughout the course of my career. But the worst one was during the pandemic, where it was just, it was the absolute worst. I talked about it on the podcast to where I had to completely like, you know, SOS like wave the white flag like I'm not okay type of thing.
And it was also, this was tricky, because I don't know if anyone else experienced this. There was a lot of colleagues of mine who were who were seemingly thriving, and they would get like their entire community on Zoom and like taking care of everyone and I'm like, I can't even take care of myself right now or my family. Like I must be terrible at this. So that was the mindset that I went down, which is that's a red flag of like that kind of inner critic thinking. So yeah,
Yeah, it's interesting because I think we all operated in different ways during kind of needing to quarantine. And me being more of an introvert I was like, in a happy place of like this, you know, not happy of what was going on in the world but just having this cocoon, you know, I had just been through a lot of grief in 2019, when my father had passed away, at 59 years old, then we put our dog or fur baby who we had, you know, rescue puppy to 13 years old and had to put her down. And then, you know, my younger, my youngest brother, 16 years old, passed away in a car accident. So…
Oh, my gosh, I didn’t know that happened at the same time.
Yeah, it was within six months that all of that happened in 2019. So, in 2020, I looked at that as a bubble, for me to actually heal and process my grief. Because when we are operating in hustle culture, we also numb out from actually paying attention to what our body, our emotions, you know, we're not tending to ourselves, because we're constantly going, that we can even check in and tune in, like, how am I feeling? What do I need? What support do I need? So, in that season, it gave me an opportunity to really sit with my grief and process, the trauma and then compounded trauma collective from everything that was going on in the world. But that's actually when I started to write, and to allow writing to be a part of my healing process, too. And it was more about healing for me than it was for the reader first. It was for me first to heal and process my own grief and trauma.
Sure, well, that brings me to what I also want to ask you about because you talk about the importance of asking for help, and not just the asking for help, but in the first place, having a support squad and I know from people listening, they've often talked about how difficult and challenging it is to not just make friends as an adult, but maintain those friendships. So can you talk about that and like what your support system looks like, and any tips or advice you have for those people listening who might really struggle in that area?
Yeah, so I first want to just name that I didn't have any really like deep, consistent friendships until I was like, almost 30. It took me a long time to really step into being deeper with women. I've been married for 17 years and so I've learned how to do this. So I'm excited to share what has been really helpful for me, but I also just want to name how hard it was for me to like, be deep and vulnerable and have that consistency and connection with other women in my life.
And so some things that have worked really well for me, as I define support squad, is I look at it in kind of three different buckets. So you have kind of your peers and colleagues. These are the people that are on the same parallel journey as you they talk about parallel playmates, like the little kids, you know, and so it's like, we're kind of we're like, on the same journey, we're struggling with the same thing. So you have that area, those are those are your friends. And then there's also support in in terms of mentors and advisors. And you can have mentors from afar, even listening to a podcast or reading a book, can be a mentor, could also be someone who's kind of coaching you to uplift you and whatever your body of work is. And then a third part of support squad for me is also looking at our mental and emotional health too. So having a therapist, a life coach, someone who's holding the totality of your emotional landscape and life and all the other parts, because even when you have close close friends, sometimes you need someone where you can just talk the whole time.
Yeah, just selfish.
Yes, take up all this space and be witnessed. Sometimes it's all we just want to be witnessed and heard. So I really look at it from a holistic lens of a way that we are growing with our mentors and advisors were playing with our fears and our friends. And then we're also healing and being witnessed and seen and having that safe space to be witnessed through coaches, healers, therapists and things like that. So I really look to be supported in that whole way.
But as far as friends, for me I am a professional friend now like I am so good at it so I'm excited to share. So for me, the way that I build consistency with friendships is actually scheduling it and I think for ambitious women who you know tend to do a lot of things have a lot of things on their plates. Usually work can over kind of flood your schedule. And so for us if you identify as that But that actually you need to schedule the things that you say matter to you. And it feels counterintuitive to do that, because you're like, if it matters to me, I should just do it. Right like if it matters me, I just want to work out or move my body but you actually need to be really intentional with the things that you say matter to you. So even with my family, well, I like I love my daughter, my husband, and yet I need to schedule time in otherwise I will I will flounder I will daytime couch time I'll just veg I'll watch all the shows. Like I'll just get lost on my own world or I'll get lost in my creative projects and work. So I have to schedule that time and just to make sure that I'm touching those things that I'm saying that matter to me. So with my friends, what I've done, you know, there's the old book, Thnk and Grow Rich by Napoleon…I was going to say Napoleon Dynamite.
I was thinking the same thing. Yes, yes. There's Bonaparte, Hill and Dynamite. Which Napoleon?
Yes. So Napoleon Hill, he talks about the mastermind, right? Where two minds come together and then they create this like, magical third mind. And so I am always looking for people that like my friends that they're going to help me grow. So whether it's…I used to have be a part of mom groups, I would start mom meetup groups and just I had a thing called Ohana Mama's so kind of creating like some structure around friendship for especially if you're more introverted can actually help. So for me, I do a lot of masterminding with my business friends and I have several. Like I have one that's local, where I meet with my friends, once a month, on a Friday, we have lunch. And then we have hot seats, which are like, you know, dedicated 25 minutes of time to talk about whatever you're struggling with. And then I have a group of girlfriends, or there's eight of us that we meet once a year. And usually it's like in January, and we schedule that to meet. And then I have a friend who I call my Polly Pocket where we Vox on a day to day basis.
So like finding kind of the what are the structure containers of support that you need. Or maybe it's just getting on a phone call with someone once a week. I had a friend who's like a Tuesday at eight o'clock, we would just like share what we were working on. We were both moms. And so it's that it's the calendaring and the scheduling of it that can really help. But before you get to that place, you actually have to do something that I called 10 seconds of bravery, which is actually like coourt somebody and ask them like on a day to day like yeah. Here's the thing that we have to get comfortable with his micro rejections. So if you invite someone who you've not hung out a lot with before, and they're like, Oh, I'm busy. I can't make it. And so we kind of get deflated from that. And so then we're like, okay, they're not interested. But what I do is like, hey, I would love to hang out with you, is it, okay if I like invite you to something in the future, they're gonna planting the seed, right? I'm gonna keep inviting you and then they can opt in like, yes, please, I do want to hang out with you. If you are the person on the receiving end of the invitation and you're you do want to hang out with this person, then just say, I'm so sorry, I can't make it but please keep inviting me. That's what I say. Because that if we don't do that, then we we get into this place where we put our walls up, and we're like, okay, they're not interested, and we give up on the friendship.
And I've also been super explicit with friends where I'm like, I want to go deeper with you. It's so awkward to say that. And it's also…it's like the note, right? Like, do you want to be friends? BFF’s? Like circle yes or no. Like, it's we really have to put ourselves out there. And and not every person is going to become a deep, meaningful person. But we need those consistent touchpoints. So you can't just invite someone once. It's like, you have to keep doing it over and over again. I have a new person that I'm courting right now, actually. And yeah, but we but we scheduled like a hike and, and several weeks ahead, and then something came up and we can't do it. So now we're having to re… So there's this like messiness that comes with kind of building those friendships of like, oh, we didn't get that on the calendar we got on the calendar, and life happened. And so we have to reschedule and navigate but you have to put in that type of messy work of calendaring and scheduling to get it on and it'll get more comfortable and easy but part of our brains don't know that we like hanging out this person yet so it's easier to just like stay in your pajamas and stay at home.
Yeah. And then that gets lonely like the pain of that gets more so than the pain of practicing that 10 seconds of courage like you say I I'm actually in the process something similar to you. So kind of a two-part quick story. I had a friend that I met when I first moved here many years ago. And this is definitely one of those, Dr. Maya Angelou, when she tells us like, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. This person told me explicitly, she was like, I have friends, but I don't do like that, you know? What did she say? She's like, I don't do like that soul sister bestie thing. So me being the good codependent that I am, I was like, I don't believe you. I'm gonna win you over. Watch how good of a friend I am. You're gonna love me. And then years later, she was great. And we had this misunderstanding. And then we didn't talk for a while. And then I reached out and was like, can I clean this up, and then we had a good heart to heart and I apologized, and she apologized. And then a few months later, she did the exact same thing to me. And I'm like, okay, I'm seeing a pattern here and I need to just, I need to just put this to bed.
So now I'm at a place where I am. Same as you. I'm like, Okay, I want more local friends that are similar to me and so I'm a part of this Facebook group. That's, that's local, I think, is it moms or just women? I can't remember. But it's like a progressive, like, we all have to share the same political beliefs and I'm in rural North Carolina. So it's tricky. It's tricky. And so they're having a meet up and I RSVP yes on Facebook and you know, you can like see who else is going. So yes, like any human, I'm like, looking at other people's profiles and I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna have a lot in common. I'm, like, older than everybody else. And then I was like, Andrea, what would you tell a client?
What would you tell them?
I would tell them like, if you want the thing that you're after you have to take the action and the behaviors in order to get there. Like, and this is the same like for a while many years ago, I wanted six pack abs. But do I want to do the things that it takes to get six pack abs? No, I don't. So it's like you have to get clear on the thing. And so the friendship thing? Do I want it bad enough to where I have to do uncomfortable things? Yeah, I do. This is very different than six pack abs.
Have you gone to the meet up yet?
No. It’s next Saturday and it's going to be tricky, because I have another event in Charlotte during the day. So it's going to be a tight squeeze. What might end up happening is that it's going to be the afternoon I'm driving back from Charlotte, and I'm gonna be like, oh my gosh, I don't want to go. I'm tired. I've been absent six. And now that I've said it here on the podcast…
You're going. You're gonna message me. I want to know about. And I do want to say something about meetup groups, too because, you know, when I first started Ohana Mamas in that group is still going on in Hawaii. Not looking quite anymore. I'm in California. But I remember people would RSVP and say yes, and then only one person would show up.
And so the person reading it now makes us pay.
Oh yeah, don't not do it. Because only one person is coming, like show up anyways. And that person became my best friend on Kawaii and our daughters were so close and all like, so it's okay, because I have this big fear. And I still have it right now, as I'm, you know, inviting people for book party launch stuff. And I'm like, no one's gonna come to my party. So why even like, host it. I guess fears? Yeah. But like, it's okay. And so sometimes all you need is just that one person and just know that that is enough to have a party like two people. And also, I mean, you could party with yourself. But I'm just saying even if the show up, the invitation is small, it's only one person still show up for it. Don't cancel the party.
It's just so important. I appreciate you spending some time talking about that. I think I wrote about this in my third book. Like another way, I just want to leave this with people before we move on to the next topic is if you are struggling to meet friends, like ask, just like relationships, ask people in your life to set you up. Like if you have a partner, ask them, hey, is there any coworkers that you have that are similar to me that might want to you know, like, hang out? Even if it's like you go with your partner to the office party, and your partner is like, hey, I want you to meet my significant other. She's you know, you guys have a lot in common and it might be like awkward, but it's just it's like we have to really sort of sometimes think outside the box. Not just think outside the box but dance outside the box. Like I don't know if that's a real expression, but just step outside of your comfort zone is what I’m trying to say.
And compliments work too. So whether it's a private message or a DM like complimenting people can get the conversation going but also in person, that was the advice I gave my daughter when she was starting ninth grade first year of high school. Just compliment people when you see something that you like, you think that school, say it out loud and that creates a tiny moment of connection.
My daughter made friends that way she just was she's a seventh grader this year, and her very best friend went to a different school. And so she was so nervous about starting school. And that's what she did. And now she has a friend. Yeah, that's it, it works. It works with her, you're in seventh grade, or ninth grade, or you're an adult.
One question that I have for you that I think might be helpful and the wealthiest people are those who are rich and relationships. And so I just feel that it's so important for people to prioritize this. But have you ever experienced where you are a part of friendship or a group where it's like, something's not quite right, or like it served me in this season and now it's not anymore? Have you ever experienced where you've had to like, step away?
Yeah, I mean, I experienced that a lot as someone who I'm going to a reformed party girl, and I don't ever regret that. I know that there are some people who are in recovery, who their partying days were just detrimental to their physical health, to their mental health to their relationships. And that wasn't my experience. I had a really great time. Like, it worked until it didn't. And then when I was when I was drinking alone, that was a very different experience. But yeah, I mean, it's for sure, I had to step away from those relationships. And part of it was because geographically we moved. And then I think, what people underestimate, and I didn't know if this is where you were going, but I think it's important to add, I think we underestimate the grief process of, of that. And nostalgia, for me, is a heavy emotion. And I can get so caught up in remembering and also romanticizing, like, you know, like Old Glory Days, you know, it's like, want to watch me throw a pigskin over the mountains like type of thing. But I just, I think that I want to give people permission to really grieve, whether it's your identity, when you were maybe a single woman, before you had all the responsibilities you did now, or maybe it is Old Glory Days, or just the friendships that you know, because oftentimes, before we have responsibilities, our friendships are a priority. And I just have found that there's so much grief in that that not a lot of people talk about.
Yeah, because it's the shifting identities. I also noticed for me something around reciprocity, because I'm a very, like, I'm like a stage one clinger with friends, because I am very, like, I can be alone and on my own so when I find someone that I connect with, and like I'm all in, and so but when I noticed, there's not the reciprocity, and I won't feel that for a while, but if I'm like, oh, I think I'm giving or I'm showing up, I'm holding space more than that person is. So I'm also paying attention to my own needs, or what requests that I need to make. But sometimes there's been places where I'm like, you're just not showing up in the same way that I show up and love and give. And so those are, there's some seasons where I've had to kind of like separate the depth of relationship or how deeply connected we are, just to kind of protect that part of myself. So I also want to say, i's okay to step away from friendships that are no longer kind of fueling you or inspiring you in that form or shifting how often you give of your time, because our time is so limited.
Right. Well, the actually, I'm curious now about that. In those situations. Do you put that all on you like you're giving too much or do you sometimes get that 10 seconds of bravery and have the conversation first or does it depend?
Yeah, so I definitely get real and honest with myself, like what's happening owning my parts, but I, you know, I had a conversation with a friend and I just noticed there was like, them kind of dipping out, and then coming back in only when they needed help, but then they weren't around. And so it was actually really uncomfortable for me, like I felt that like feeling in my chest that like small part of me but I had to have that conversation like this isn't working for me anymore can we hop on a conference…have a call, so that 10 seconds of bravery to actually have the messy and uncomfortable conversation? We're still friends. We're just not in that deeper, closer, consistent container because she couldn't show up in the way that there was a group of us, so couldn't show up in that same way. So we kind of just dissolve that group. But we're still good friends. Does that make sense? So it's like this kind of like, but this this, the way that we're showing up is not working anymore, and we have to shift it.
And I think it's also very beautiful and brave to say what's real for you versus kind of, it's like when you start to feel that resentment or you're complaining of like, oh my gosh, that person does that. You know, and you're doing it to everyone else and not saying it to them. That's when it's like, okay, I need to have that a brave conversation and actually talk to them about it and just communicate and express your needs. And like, it's an also it was one of those things where it's like, we've told you so many times it’s not okay. You know, like, still, you're still showing up in that way and it just doesn't feel right. And so…
There's a difference. Yeah, thank you for clarifying. Because like, for the record, I have been that friend that you described. And my girlfriend, who was one of my very best girlfriends, and I actually wrote about her and How To Stop Feeling Like Shit. I can't remember what chapter it was. But when I talk about, there was this friendship that I had, and she, it just kind of fell apart and I didn't know what happened. And she kind of ghosted me and then, and then we kind of got back together and then she like really broke up with me and told me she just couldn't handle… She had a lot on her plate at that time. And then, when we did finally talk about it, and I was like, what happened? And she said, you're a selfish friend and you always managed to make it about you. And at first, I was just mortified, and just the wash of shame of, oh, my gosh, like, I don't think she's wrong. She's right. And like, granted, it was a lot of that behavior. On my end was at a time when I was going through my divorce when I was like dating the addict who lied about having cancer. So there was a lot of drama going on in my life. And, but I am so grateful to her. And she has sent said, my delivery at that time was not the best. Like she's like, I could have delivered it, it better to you. And but she was right. And that moment was such a turning point for me, because it gave me the jumping off point that I needed to look at how I behaved and her friendship.
I always thought it was enough that I was entertaining, that I was always a good time. And that I was like 95% of the time reliable like I you know, you can rely on me. Like if I said I was gonna go out with you on Saturday night, like we were, we were going out. But it's not, you know, and I think many of us get to a certain point in our lives, where we want more from our friendships, and we're done gossiping, we're done…all of these things that many of us in the behaviors that we engage in, and it was, you know, one of the top 10 hardest conversations that probably both of us have ever had with each other. But we you know, this was maybe five or so years ago, we sat at the Brigantine and just cried about our former friendship and how, you know, that really hard conversation that we had, and she apologized for her delivery. I apologize for being a shitty friend. But I'll tell you what, I'm a different friend. Now based on that conversation. And I had to really learn. I don't think we're born with the ability to hold space for other people to have empathy to have passion to, to hold someone in the way that we want to be held. And unfortunately, a lot of times we have to have these conversations like it's crappy to that, that we think that and I feel terrible that in 52 Ways To Live A Kick Ass Life my book, I wrote about like, get rid of your toxic friends. It's like, yeah, I don't think that people are toxic. I think sometimes our behaviors are shitty. We need to set boundaries, but also give people the opportunity to clean it up. That's the part that's missing. And I have been guilty of that, too.
How would you have someone actually had that type of cleanup? The opportunity to clean it up? Like what would…
You mean if like you or someone… so if it was like you were you were feeling like a friend wasn’t reciprocating?
Okay, so how I would say it is… I'll go back to like the conversation that are the sort of situation that me and my friend, I don't want to use her real name, although she would be fine with it. Also, I'll call her. I'll call her Jessica. Not her real name. So if Jessica were to come to me, and say, Andrea, I know you have so much going on in your life, and it's a heavy load that you're carrying. And at the same time, when we get together, I feel like you're not…there's not enough room for me. I feel like most of the time you I share something and you turn it around and make it about you and just kind of overstep it and I know that that's not your intention to be not a great friend. But that's what I'm feeling and I love you so much and I love us so much and I don't want this friendship to go away but I'm not getting out of it what I need and I deserve and I wanted to have this conversation with you because I love you and I want to continue and I want to give you the opportunity to improve.
I love that so much. I feel like everyone should rewind.
And that's just shooting from the hip but like what I would that still feel like she punched me in the face. Yes. And it would feel like she punched me in the face and then gave me a big hug afterwards and a ice pack. Because there's no easy way to tell someone or to set a boundary or have a hard conversation. And I think as women we're we are inclined to be so nurturing and to take care of other people's feelings before our own. Whether the person that we were talking to is male, female or non-binary. Like that's even hard for me to say to somebody, but it’s important.
And I also think that if you are living you know, having a lot on your plate going through a lot of messy transitions to name it out loud so your friends know to like, hey, I know I'm taking up more oxygen in this season of my life. We also I have a rule with friends where we can press reset in like a Voxer message train, it's like my life is so full I can't catch up I can't track I can't like you know, and just like just say reset. So like we know you didn't you didn't hear anything that we just talked about for the last couple of days because you're in that busy season and then just allows us to know like, okay, your life is full. And also we know you don't know what's going on with all the things we just talked about. So it's yeah, it's good people. It’s humans. Yeah.
It reminds me of did you watch the show Schitts Creek?
Of course. Of course my whole family.
I love David and Alexis their sibling thing that they have called it's my turn to take a selfish. That's what this reminds me of like you took a selfish Do you remember in 2013? Like, of course their selfish was ridiculous because this was the purpose of the show, but that's what it reminds me. I didn't mean to make this whole thing about friendships, but I think it's such a pertinent topic. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
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I want to circle back to your book and I think it's in your chapter about refilling your well. Can you talk about tools and strategies that people can take away from this episode when they're feeling stressed or exhausted? Like what can they do besides like, take a bubble bath?
Yes, yes, because we have to redefine and rethink self-care that it's not just massages and facials and mani pedis. And also some bodies can't fit in that. So we also have to think of like accessible, creative, affordable ways to take care of ourselves. And to me I look at self-care is not just those luxury things, although I love those things and getting acupuncture, but It also just these micro sips of nourishment too. So some simple things like if your eyes are glazing at the screen and Zoom fatigue or, you know, you can tell, you're just kind of zoning out that your body can need just a little shift and a reset. So I like to step outside in the sun or even if it's cold outside, just a state change in your body can also be a form of self-care. I also like to lay on the floor. So I will have my back on the floor, and I'll either prop my legs up on my couch, or even up against a wall or a door and just lay. And my husband's, like looking and he's like, What are you doing? And I'm just like, I'm just relaxing. It like activates our parents, parents… Please forget that the parent….can think of the word right? The parasympathetic or sympathetic nervous system. Yes, thank you. When I recorded my audio book, I anything with like four syllables plus, I was like, oh.
You don't realize how tricky some sentences are until you have to record it perfectly.
Yeah, so or even… So like laying up against the wall, you can even listen to like an instrumental song or just putting a song on like, I have a ‘fill in myself’ playlist where I'll just dance to a song can be a mixup, Alicia Keys, Beyonce, just whoever I'm listening to, but just kind of activating our body and nourishing ourselves in that way. And I haven't a menu like a self-care menu, my daughter has one and it's posted on her on her wall next to her desk, of just things that are…what think about what are things that are nourishing for you, that allow you to kind of disconnect from the busyness or the work or the stressors that are happening. So building out a self-care menu can be a very, very powerful practice. For me, I love sitting, I'll go in a hot tub like that's more than a bathtub, I'd like put me in a hot tub and I could sit in it for three hours and I have dates with my husband and a hot tub. My daughter will have dates and conversations in there and also just soak in a hot tub solo. But really thinking of sustainable practices that kind of reset you quickly can be very, very helpful. And also, self-care can also be friends too. Like who are you? Who are your safe people to talk to and knowing who that is and like, are you free to do a walk and talk? That's something that I do a lot with my friends of like, hey, can we schedule a time? Are you free right now or anything just like for me to move my body and be in conversation can also be an emotional release and also getting us to move it back too.
I love that I do similar things. I was trying to think like what are mine that I do? That might be different from your list. As an extrovert I process out loud. Yeah, I'll talk in a whole circle, whether I'm with my therapist, or my best friend. And my best friend Amy Smith and I, we use Voxer as well. For those that don't know, it's a walkie talkie app. It's similar to WhatsApp or Marco Polo. And now we call it podcast episodes that we send to each other because it's like every detail of our life. I don't even sometimes I'll be leaving her a message. And it's like, I don't want to stop recording. Yes, and it stops you at 15 minutes. What else happened? Well, I got a blister from my bands the other day and…
It's so powerful though to have that it's that power processing there's not an I'm you know, like I struggle more introvert but I'm a sort of a social introvert. And so I have one friend that can like, do like we're basically daily dear diary to each other back and forth. And my husband's like, I want to Nikki. Like you know, like, how do people get like a Nikki or and Amy you know? Like, how do you have someone that has that? If you are a verbal processor, it's really helpful to have someone in your corner that can process and share an update. And it's reciprocal. I'm assuming that both of you are verbal processors.
And it's vulnerable. Like I don't this did not happen overnight. This was a process that happened over the years but… And just to go back to one of the things that I've noticed about me as an extrovert, and this this has happened as I've gotten older is that I hit a wall and it's suddenly like I'm done. Like I wish that it was socially acceptable for me to be at a party or in the middle of a conversation with somebody and just say sometimes I want that to be my sign off here on the podcast, I'm done talking. Because I was late diagnosed ADHD and I might my son has autism and the more I learned about it, I'm like I definitely have some tendencies but one of the things is that I have learned to master masking of small talk. Like, I don't mind it. And I think it's because I'm just good at it. But wrapping up a conversation is really where things fall apart for me like… So I'm just like, I'm done talking. But how that manifests in real life is that I'll get to a point during the day, where I'm just done. I hit a wall and I have to go and be by myself in my bedroom, and I'm like, no one come talk to me. And it's a way of just sort of hiding kind of, but it's a way of it's self-care. It truly is self care. It means nothing about my family members. Think about really my mental state, except that this is what my brain needs to take care of itself.
Yes. And we, in our family, we do the same because my daughter and I tend to be more highly sensitive and processing and all of that. So I need space. Yeah. And that is the clue. Like, I'm closing the door. We have code words, all kinds of different words to use of like, please stop. My husband's a musician. So it's like, please stop playing the guitar. Please stop playing the digital room love. Whatever the handpan like, just like we need the noise to be quiet. So I need space is like a really great phrase to say. And then it's like that means like, I'm gonna go in the room, veg, close the door, I need to decompress. And something that I say in my book is I'm not hiding and healing.
Yes, thank you. I love that. I'm not hiding. I'm healing. That's exactly how I describe it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I feel like everyone should definitely get your book on audiobook because the sound of your voice is so soothing. Do people tell you that?
Yeah, they do. So I was excited that I, I could record the…all my love and energy is definitely in the audiobook and I feel like it's one of those things where you want the physical book and the audiobook. I'm one of those nerds that like because there's actually a lot of worksheets and questions and prompts in every chapter to kind of…and also to build your self-care menu in Chapter 11 of Refill Your Well, and getting some inspiration and like, what is your self-care style? Because there's like the social butterfly or the solo lounger or the artists like there's just so many, like, how do we refill our well and kind of identifying with certain traits that might kind of help you build out your menu a little bit better. And usually, we're straddling more than one thing, but it's helpful to kind of identify what is your self-care style?
Got it? Okay. Definitely people check that out. The book is called She Builds: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life. I feel like this could have been definitely like a two-part podcast episode. You're just a clear example of someone who's been doing the work for so long, and also helping other people do it. And I just I love your wisdom. I love the sound of your voice. I love your energy. Thank you so much for being here.
I'm so happy to be here. And we could do part two on my podcast so we can continue the conversation on the Lead With Love Podcast, and then we'll do part two.
I'd be happy to suit before we close up. Is there anything that you want to circle back to that you're kind of you know, feeling like you want to say to be complete?
Yeah, I just want to kind of revisit that 10 seconds of bravery of really thinking about what is that one thing, that one uncomfortable thing that is getting you closer to the thing you actually want? What is that 10 seconds that you need to do. Is in an email is complimented a DM is it you know, an invitation to a friend, a text message? Just put yourself out there and see what happens from there.
Anything is possible. Anything is possible. Yeah. It could be the start of something beautiful. Thank you so much for being here. And then where do you want people to go to learn more about you? I'm assuming it's to your book. Do you have like extras or anything?
Yeah, we definitely have extras you go to SheBuilds.com You'll get all of the book stuff. And also, there's tons of bonuses and great things to get. If you do that, and then just for anything else that I'm up to JadahSellner.com and @JadahSellner and all the social media handles, but I can usually only handle one. You're so cute on Instagram. I can't like…
I'm pulling my TikToks.
It's great. You're just so fun to watch.
It's a well it's funny because the difference of Instagram and TikTok like I'm really not a big deal over on TikTok but Instagram. I'm like, oh my God, that's so cool. And I'm like then you should be on TikTok. But I know too many socials can be overwhelming. But again, I'm an extrovert. So I love it. I love it so much. All right, all those links will be in the show notes. Thank you so much again for being here. And everyone. Thank you so much for your time. I'm so grateful that you choose to spend it here with my guests and with me and remember, it's our life's journey to make ourselves better humans and our life's responsibility to make the world a better place. Bye for now.
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